Is "River Water" better?

[renosteinke]

I am just getting started, and I truly appreciate all the experienced folks who take their time to answer simple, silly, or repetitive questions

Anyway, my 'long term plan' is to have a small indoor water garden, stocked with small goldfish. It has occurred to me that perhaps I ought to start off first, using a conventional aquarium.

I looked at the local pet supply store, and learned that ..... adding up all the bits and pieces ... starting a 10 gallon aquariun will cost me about $130.


Anyway .... can I 'speed up' getting the nitrate cycle started by using water direct from our local river? Is this a good idea?
(The river is flowing fast now, fed with fresh snowmelt. River is usually stocked with trout, and had "kuiwui," a native fish something like a cross between a catfish and a salmon. River is typically without much in the way of plant growth or algae).

 

[bs6749]

1. Where are you located? I cannot believe that your local fish store (lfs) would suggest that a 10 gallon tank could be so much money. You can go to a Walmart and buy a kit with everything you need (10 gallon) for under $50 (not including a stand). You really don't need a "stand" per se. All you need is something that will support the weight of the tank which would be in the neighborhood of 80-90lbs. If you don't have a spare dresser or table, computer desk, etc. you may have to spend $20 for a cheap metal stand.

2. I would stay away from using river water because you never know what kind of organism you are going to find in there. Another reason to avoid this is because of pollutants from local farms such as animal manure, pesticides, fertilizerzers and other things that could potentially have a negative impact on your aquarium's inhabitants. Too many questionable things may be in there to start with. My recommendation would be 1/2 well/tap water and 1/2 distilled or purified water (reverse osmosis/de-ionized water).

3. What kind of fish/other creatures are you planning on having in the tank?

 

[niks93gt]

Aquarium kit: $50
Substrate: $8
Stand $25

Thats $83. I personally always get a better heater and a digital thermometer. Thats another $30. Plus fish, decorations, water dechlor... $130 seems a good amount to have set aside. Especially if you want to go with a nicer looking stand.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Don't use the river water. Just use regular tap. Using water from a "cycled tank" won't speed up a cycle.

 

[jamesrm]

I tested the river water near my place, nasty nasty stuff. Tap water is soo much better.

 

[DepotFish]

Goldfish need 10-20 gallons per fish. Even small ones (which do grow quickly you know). They have a large bioload. If you are doing something small indoors, I'd suggest small tropical fish.

 

[renosteinke]

is river water better?

Thanks for the advice ...especially about using 'wild' water!

I was intending, at least for a start, goldfish. Learning to walk before I try to run, etc. Perhaps something simple, like Neon Tetras, will be a better choice. One factor is that I really don't want to have to heat the tank.

While the tank might seem a bit crowded, my plan is to 'move up' and place them in a larger indoor pool, once I get the basics down.

Now, as to the expense .... the prices I assembled incloded a few things that don't come with 'starter kits." Indeed, the "starter kit" I was looking at included a heater, and was priced at $45.

The starter kit did not include an air pump. Since goldfish are "dirty," I'd want to add an undergravel filter, and that needs an air pump.

I included in that total some accessories ... a 'python' for fillling/ draining, and a test kit to monitor the water. There was also a bottle of conditioner, for re-fills of the tank. A 5-gal bucket for letting tap water 'air out' overnight.

One of my primary guides has been "Aquariums for Dummies."

The "final fantasy" will be a system that requires little maintenance; I want to try to re-create nature in my pool. Plants, small fish that can handle unheated water in winter (say, 65 F), some snails and small catfish for bottom-cleaning, etc.
A major complication will be the amount of water I will lose to evaporation; Reno is dry, and the indoor pool will have a gentle waterfall. (Good for aeration, bad for evaporation). I expect that python to get LOTS of use!

I've seen the deionizing units, but the short cartridge life is a 'downer.'
Likewise, the final pool might have a UV light added to help control algae ... I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

[bs6749]

A python for a ten gallon tank is overkill IMO.

 

[theotheragentm]

A python for a ten gallon tank is overkill IMO.

I agree, especially when a large cup can take out a few gallons in a few scoops. Just set a towel down for dripping.

 

[DepotFish]

Do not put goldfish in a ten gallon. You won't be walking before you run, you'll be falling before you even stand up. Try platies or rosy reds or other cold water fish.

 

[jsoong]

Keeping goldies in a 10 requires WORK, and a fair bit of experience .... not really a good training setup.

Suggestion for cold water alternative - a school of white cloud mountain minnows, hardy & easy starters that won't require a heater, and you can even add that to your indoor pond later if desired (although big golds will treat them as tasty snacks).

If you really have your heart set on golds, you should try to get at least a 20 Long or better, a 40 breeder. These tanks are not much more than the 10's (esp. if you get a boxing week sale ....)

Goldies may be "dirty", but an undergravel is NOT a good solution. The crud gets pulled under the plates and decompose into nasties. To prevent that you will have to tear down your tank twice a year to clean under the plates .... not a pleasant job. I did that for a couple years before giving up on the whole UGF idea. You won't find many UGF fans around.

A far more sensible solution is to use a HOB or small canister & keep your tank bare bottomed & just do frequent bottom vacumming. Only add in substrate when you are ready to move into plants (& your "final fantasy).

 

[oct18af]

With him just starting up should he be using a 10 ga. tank. I just started off myself so i dont know much but i heard that the bigger the tank you start off with the easier thye process will go... is this true

 

[neilanh]

The larger the tank, the more room for error. more specifically, a larger tank will be more stable than a smaller specifically because of the larger volume.

 

[JRagg]

A python for a ten gallon tank is overkill IMO.

I agree, especially when a large cup can take out a few gallons in a few scoops. Just set a towel down for dripping.

I bought one for my 10g recently and am very glad that I did. It's personal preference, but I got sick of the bucket brigade. Siphoning sucks... literally . Yes, it's probably more than I need, but it keeps me from neglecting the water changes.

 

[bs6749]

Just seems easier to have a 5 gallon bucket to fill with dirty water from a siphon and then add clean water instead of using a python. Not like you need to take out more than 2 gallons at a time with a 10 gallon tank.

 

[renosteinke]

I like the different fish suggestions ....

I would agree that a 'python' might be a bit much for a 10 gal aquarium; please rmember that I am looking at the aquarium as but the first step toward an indoor pond. Also, since I am told that goldfish are 'dirty,' I expect to heve to change / replace water more often.

Considering local Reno weather, evaporation is a real issue; simply adding water is likely to make this into a 'salt water' pond, if I'm not careful Hence, the python, and the consideration of a de-ionizing unit.

 

[courtnee]

With him just starting up should he be using a 10 ga. tank. I just started off myself so i dont know much but i heard that the bigger the tank you start off with the easier thye process will go... is this true

I started out with a 10gl and ended up naming it the "Tank of death". After being a idiot and doing a cycle with goldfish and snail, losing two goldfish and saving the snail from "hell" and cycled the tank I figured it was easy from there.

HAH! Everything I put in it DIED.

So I hear bigger is easier....

I buy a 55gl tank. I did a fishless cycle. I have lost one fish so far. It was a serpae tetra on day 2 of owning him. Everyone else has been healthy and fine.

I left my 10gl tank empty for almost a month. I learned how to deal with this 55gl, threw a betta in the 10gl and he is making bubble nests and living it up in there very healthy.

My 55gl is easier to take care of, it is more comforting knowing I have more room for error. I have myself on a schedule of tasks and everything is going smooth.

I feared getting the 55gl i would just have a larger tank of death, but it paid off and it is thriving.

I can see where a 10gl is harder to deal with compared to larger.

Sure during water changes there is a lot more work as there is more water but I dont have to stress over what my water is doing as much. Just a little. LOL

 

[jsoong]

A larger tank is easier to take care of, esp. for beginners. If you have to start with a ten, you really have to be careful about your fish load, etc.

Regarding the python, you can save some $$ if you have a nearby drain/ window. I use an ordinary siphon, but bought a long piece of PVC tube so the water goes directly out the window to a flower box. To fill, just get a long lenght of hose to fit your faucet. No need for any buckets!

And you will likely NOT use a python in a pond .... it wastes a lot of water during an uphill/level drain. Ponders fill with a hose, and drain using the pond (or fountain) pump.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

You stated you want something cold water and low maintenance in the same breath as "indoor pond with waterfall".

whoa. there is no conceivable way I can see that being low maintenance. ever. ever.

I suggest you start breaking in your chops on something at least 20 gallons. Aquarium for Dummies gives you a good start on things, but is likely a bit outdated on information if it suggests goldfish as a good starter, and undergravel filters.

Please, please take it from someone who started out with gouramis in a 10 gallon, and at one point had 9 tanks...this hobby grows FASTER than you can accumulate the cash for your dream of an indoor pond.

Get the biggest tank you can. You are in Reno, I know they have PetSmart there. Get a 55 gal starter kit and a stand for about $250 and see if you do well with it. Get used to maintenance, this hobby requires you tend to it at least an hour a week for grooming and cleaning, daily inspection and feeding, and in dry climate, probably top-off every other day.

Learn about ways to fishlessly cycle your tank, and plan not to put fish in it for at least 6 weeks, unless you can find a friend with some used filter media, or get your hands on some BioSpira (personally, go with used filter media. Anything sold to quick cycle your tank is probably snake oil, altho most report excellent results with BioSpira).

And if you want a planted indoor pond, plan for extra mainenance, and learn everything you can about planted tanks. Go check out the planted tank forum.

Please, take the advice you are getting. Goldfish aren't for beginners. Certainly one of hte most abused animals in the hobby.

 

[roka64]

Remember, the nitrifying bacteria does not reside in the water (if it does, it is only in a very small amount, not enough to cycle a tank), it resides in the substrates/filter media/plants and decorations. On the river watrer, as you have seen, sometimes it tends to be pretty funky! Good luck!