Jack's 20G Long Build Journal

[JackBinimbul]

Nitrates have joined the party!

I got in some ammonium chloride from Dr Tim's yesterday. Firstly, it's important to note that he does not specify the concentration on the bottle, but after testing, it's pretty low. No more than 5%.

Moving on, I did a water change yesterday and tested my ammonia to determine how much to add. I was at about .25 after the change. I added 8 drops, waited an hour and tested again. I repeated this 3 times until I hit 4-5 ppm. Then I left it over night.

This morning, ammonia had fallen to 1 ppm, my nitrites are still of the chart and I have 10-20 ppm on nitrates!

I will be adding ammonia again tonight and monitoring my nitrites. I'll probably be ready for fish next week!

I'll be adding endler's first and I found an awesome guy on AquaBid who is willing to sell me a mix of male N and P color patterns for a great price.

After the endler's get established and my tank is verified as stable, which should I add next? The cories or the neo. shrimp?

 

[King Fisher]

I'd keep your ammonia around 2 ppm. Get your nitrites below or at 4 ppm so you don't risk stalling your cycle. So maybe a 50% water change then dose ammonia up to 2 ppm??

 

[JackBinimbul]

I'll be dosing ammonia tonight and doing another water change tomorrow. I'll go ahead and make it a 50%. Trying to keep the ammonia between 1-3 at this point. It seems to be cycling to nitrite pretty quickly.

A note about fishless cycling:

I recommend that people use ammonium chloride when possible, rather than fish food. I started with fish food and it worked well for me in the beginning, but it makes a mess of the tank. Not only that but now I pretty much have a nematode tank. So majestic.

 

[King Fisher]

I agree. I always have done them with fish food or fish. Always had to do frequent water changes/vacuums. My next one, I will be trying the pure ammonia method.

 

[JackBinimbul]

I did a 50% water change yesterday, but it was insufficient. I got the ammonia to about 2 ppm, tested again and my nitrites were still off the charts and the nitrates were getting around 50. A few hours later, I did another, 75% water change.

Immediately after the water change, my readings were as follows:
KH 7°/125ppm
GH 10°/179ppm
pH 7.6
Ammonia .25
Nitrites 2.0
Nitrates 5-10

I left it as is overnight and tested again this afternoon with these results:
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 5.0+
Nitrates 20

Currently I'm testing ammonia in the morning and at night, dosing ammonia 8 drops at a time until I get back to 2 ppm if it drops under 1 ppm.

Am I doing this correctly? Should I keep doing water changes when the nitrites are off the chart and the nitrates are above 40?

I know that I'm "done" when the ammonia and nitrites are turned around in 12 hours. Currently, the ammonia is cycled very rapidly. Within 8 hours or so. Is this on track?

 

[King Fisher]

I've heard two ideas about this....one, nitrites are not harmful to a cycle until they hit 15 ppm and leave the tank alone......water changes prolong a cycle. Second, nitrites shouldn't be over 5ppm without potential to stall a cycle so do water changes. I've always kept nitrites at 4-5ppm tops. That being said, I would do another 50% water change then dose ammonia if I had over 5 ppm nitrites. But this is entirely up to you.

 

[JackBinimbul]

It's not the nitrites that stall the cycle. It's the conditions that tend to go hand-in-hand with high nitrites! I'm monitoring my pH so I don't get a crash, but this is all new to me.

 

[King Fisher]

Correct....pH crash. Your KH is on the lower side. To replenish it, do water changes. Bacteria needs minerals. That's my train of thought anyways.

 

[King Fisher]

It appears to me you are halfway through the cycle.

 

[Barliman]

I know that I'm "done" when the ammonia and nitrites are turned around in 12 hours.

The standard I've been taught, and what works for me, is that 2ppm of ammonia should be wholly converted to nitrate in 24 hours. In other words, zero ammonia, zero nitrates. My suggestion would be to leave your tank alone until you get 0/0, then add enough ammonia to reach 2ppm, and then test it to see where you are.

 

[alishabillmen]

Following your post!

Interested to watch the process with your 20 gallon having just completed my own.

 

[JackBinimbul]

I like your signature! That's really what I enjoy doing. Making little micro-ecosystems in an otherwise very controlled and sterile home environment.

What do you keep in your 20?

 

[JackBinimbul]

Like others have said, the nitrites drop all at once!

I've had readings off the charts for over a week now, but today they plummeted. Current readings are;
Ammonia 0-.25
Nitrites .50
Nitrates 5.0-10

I'm not sure if my ammonia is actually 0 and just doesn't look as yellow as I expect or if things in my tank are continuously producing it. It looks just a tiny bit not pure yellow. I haven't added any fish food for about 2 weeks and no ammonia for nearly a week.

I do have some plants that are going through some growing pains. The hairgrass is recovering from the shock of planting. There's new growth, but the original grass is dying. I do remove what I can when I water change. I'm dosing once a day, one pump of ThriveS for a 20 gallon. I figure this will be a more steady, continuous dosing rather than 4 pumps 1-3x a week. I'll work up to the dosage that seems to work best.

I also have some detritus worms that are nomming up what I can't easily remove from the previous weeks of using fish food to cycle.

Could these things be producing the ammonia I'm seeing or is it likely at 0?

I assume that now I should keep an eye on it and dose ammonia when my nitrites hit zero, then dose to 1 ppm and start timing it. Should I avoid changing the water at all until nitrates are above 40? Or just do a big water change when the cycle is complete?

 

[Fresh2o]

So very close! I would dose ammonia to 1.0 ppm and if that and nitrite are zero at 24 hours then you are golden.
The plants may be bringing the nitrate levels down.
Anything consuming the fish food (inverts, microbes) will contribute to the ammonia.

 

[King Fisher]

Awesome man!!!! Dose that ammonia to 2 ppm IMO. Let it sit for a week then see where you are at.

Once you get that tank cycled and comfortable you should be good dosing your tank with Thrive at 2 pumps once a week for low light plants.

 

[JackBinimbul]

Almost there! I dosed up to 1 ppm Ammonia on Monday and tested every 12 hours. The ammonia was at 0 in 24, the nitrite was at 0 in 48. Dosed back up to 1 ppm this morning and the ammonia is near about .5 already. I'm sure I'll be cycled by the weekend.

With that in mind, I will be ordering my 10 mixed male endlers on Monday! So.friggen.exciting.

I plan on giving the endlers about 2 weeks of water monitoring and acclimation before adding the next inhabitants. Which should go after them? The cories or the neo. shrimp? I'm really hoping to get everyone in the tank before winter comes and I'm not able to get things shipped anymore!

 

[King Fisher]

I think you can just start your Cory's in QT after your endlers. I've never QT'd shrimp or snails. That's your call brother.

 

[JackBinimbul]

I'm going to add the endlers directly since nothing else is in there, but the cories will go in quarantine. I have a 10 gallon for that but it's not set up in any way. I have two double sponge filters in my 20. I should be able to just take one of the sponges from the 20 to jump start the 10, yea?

How far ahead should I get it going?

 

[King Fisher]

You don't have to cycle the 10 if you are in a time pinch. Just change out 50% of the water every 2-3 days. Test the water with your API to be sure. It's only 3 weeks then they are out. I personally just put an HOB on my 10g QT and a heater. Bare bottom. Feed them like normal and clean up excess food and poop daily with a turkey baster. Works every time

 

[JackBinimbul]

I now have cories!

I gave some thought to how I wanted to time things and came to a conclusion. I'm waiting for my contact about Endlers to get back to me, but I really hope I can have them by next week. Since there is nothing in the tank atm, I will add the endler's directly.

I also decided that going with corydoras second made the most sense. I was debating between julii and aeneus and decided on the latter for a number of reasons. Firstly, they are more affordable. Secondly, people have reported that they seem to be more hardy. Also, julii are often mislabeled and I didn't want to run the risk of ending up with the wrong species for my parameters. Lastly, they are the only schooling fish I will have. As it is important to maintain a proper population, I wanted to go with something that I could quickly and easily bolster the numbers for if I had deaths.

Which brings us to why I already have cories. It made the most sense to get them from my two LFS. Because of that, quarantine is imperative. Since they will be in my 10 gallon QT tank for at least two weeks, I figured I might as well grab them now and start that process.

I got 2 albino and 1 wild type from Petco. Then I got the only 2 wild type Petsmart had. I did this for a couple of reasons. Even though they both have similar, if not identical suppliers, they would at least not be from the same exact blood line. This gives me more genetic diversity. Also, I figured that even though they will be housed together, I have a better chance if survival of they aren't all from the same source.

I took one of the sponges from my established tank and filled up the 10. I floated both bags for about an hour and then drip acclimated each, separately, for about an hour and a half. Then netted and added them to the tank. They pretty much immediately started swimming around together.

One of the albinos has tattered fins and damaged barbels, I think due to the nearly adult mollies they were housed with. I'm pretty certain that this one and one of the Petsmart ones are female, though it's hard to tell at this point.

The tattered fin one is calmer, more mellow. The other albino is very curious and bold. The wild color Petco one is active and outgoing, but a little nervous, always preferring to follow the others. The Petsmart female is a little panicky. She kept trying to jump out of the bucket and has been gulping air, but when put in with the others, she calmed down. The smaller Petsmart male is very much a follower.

I'm keeping them in a darkish area with a metal mesh lid for a couple of days and then will add a light and a small buce. No substrate as this is a QT tank.

Say hello to my new friends!

Here are the Petsmart cories, with the hypothetical female on the left.

This is the adventuresome albino

And the probable female with the tattered fins.

And this is the wild-type Petco bronze.