JayJay's newbie setup (from oddballs things thread)

[JayJay]

Okay, sorry I posted in another section about something else and got lots of good advice. Rather than hijack a thread I will start one here.

I got an aquarium for Christmas from my fiancee (I was always moaning about how I couldn't keep pets in my apartment).

Its really cool but I know squat about it. I've looked around these forums and spoken to my work mate who knows quite a bit and have learned tons in two days. Still I'm worried about my fish (who came with the present) now that I've finally figure out what a "cycle" is.

Okay, heres some stats.

The tank is 12 litres, 30cm x 18cm x 24cm.

The fish are 12 neon tetras and 3 panda corys.

I started with just a heater and an oxygenator but today I bought a light (on a timer 9am-9pm) and a "over the top" filter system.

As well I bought 3 Amazon Swordplants and both NO2 and pH test kits.


So its been three days now and the fish are still doing okay but I think they are freaking out over the constants changing enviroment (me sticking my hand in to add stuff) and the mental lighting schedule (I work very irregular hours being both a tutor and musician), which I hope the light and timer will fix.

I just tested the water, don't know if its good or bad.

NO2- 1
pH- 7.5

After today I'm not planning to change to much as a) I've already spent a bit of money and b) I want to stop freaking out the fish and help them get used to it.

Things I am doing now that I have either picked up here or from my mate.

-Feeding them twice a day, just a pinch, morning and evening.
-Putting a light on the timer and not turning on bright lights in the evening (I TV and computer are in another room and my reading light isn't too bright).
-Keeping an eye on the temperature (it's set to 25 degrees C)
-Changing the water (20%) twice a week and de-cholonating (sp?) it (now that I have a filter, do I still need too).

Things I will do

-Get some gravel and water from my mates work fish tank (also freshwater and some of the same fish)
-Keep an eye on the water both NO2, pH and temp
-NOT get any more fish until I get these ones either sussed or they die

So, I have read about nitrogen and ammonia spikes and other nasties. What stats are normal? If this start going bad, what do do. How long is a cycles, when am I "over ther hill" and can think about more finish or replacing?

Sorry if these have already been answered but I'm still taking a lot in.

Damn fine present, I'm really getting into it, but its also a lot to learn at once (and I though keeping fish was easy maybe it is once you get into it).

Thanks everyone, only two days and you've all been a great help.

 

[SparKy697]

The pH is fine. I would actually suggest that you stop testing it at this point because you are going to do nothing to change it.

The Nitrite is higher than you want it to be. Ideal levels after the cycle is complete is 0 ppm.

You should go and get an ammonia test kit as well. In the order of toxicity to your fish are Ammonia = most toxic, Nitrite = Slightly less toxic, Nitrate = Most will tell you that anything 40 ppm or less is just fine.

Gravel from work would be a great thing, the water really won't do you much good. What you are looking for is bacteria and that lives on hard surfaces like the gravel, filter media and even the bottom of the tank. Take the gravel home in a container that will allow you to keep it wet with tank water. If it dries out, the bacteria will die.

At this point and until you see your ammonia and nitrites down to zero, I would be doing daily pwc of about 50%. Remember that there is no acceptable level of ammonia for the most part and the neon's seem to be especially susceptible to it. This is a small tank and you will see the levels of ammonia rise quite rapidly.

One last suggestion. Will your friend consider letting you put your fish in his tank until yours is done cycling? Your fish would love you for it and you will have a much higher success rate with the fish that you have.

 

[JayJay]

Thanks.

I'll get a ammonia test kit soon as. I did a pwc this morning but the fish don't seem to like it, they seem to freak out a bit. Also it's pretty cold here right now and the tap water is cold. If I do 50% will the temp change affect the fish?

I would give the fish to my mate but he has a big turtle (a monster really) and I'm worried they'll be eaten. The fish in his tank have wised up but Im not so sure about mine.

I dont have a siffin (sp?). Should I get one? They're cheap as chips and I'm sure it will make pwc easier for me and the fish.

Cheers Sparky.

edit: here are some pics...

 

[SparKy697]

That's a beauty!

By all means, you should be doing what ever you can to make sure the water you put in is as close to the same temperature as the water you took out! Consistency is key as I have learned. Wide temp. swings will stress the fish and when they are stressed, like us, they are susceptible to disease.

A siphon hose is a great idea and one that most people here use as well.

Those look like live plants. That will help your efforts as the plants can consume some ammonia as well.

I'd say that you are on the right track, it's mostly a waiting/watching game now.

Have a good day, It's time to go to work now 7:00 am here.

 

[Jchillin]

Hi JayJay, welcome to AA.

You have recieved some great advice from Sparky, only thing missing from the testing equipment is the NO3 test. Since you have two sword plants, I would suggest heading over to the Planted Tank forum so you can get some advice there. Plants are a great addition to a tank and require some needed care similar to fish.

That looks like a box filter (activated charcoal and filter floss) on the bottom right. I would suggest removing that since you have an "over the top" (HOB) filter installed.

 

[JayJay]

Thanks everyone.

It's been 4 days now I the fishies seem to be doing fine. I got some gravel from my mate and he also lent me some stuff (liquid) thats supposed to encourage bacterial growth. My three Swordplants may be helping too I think. I will head over to the over forum, as I have some plant question but won't ask them here.

Right now the NO2 is the same as two days ago <1, the pH has gone up just a little and is something like 7.8.

Also with the new filter, light on a timer, and toys to play with and hide in, the fish look more relaxed and comfortable.

I haven't been able to get back into the city due to work but I am planning to get ammonia and NO3 test kits too.

About the box filter, I know maybe I should remove it but the tetra like playing in the bubble so unless it actually does harm, I may keep it in.

 

[JayJay]

I just bought an Ammonia test kit today and my water is 1.5 mg/l. I know 0 is best but how is 1.5. I dont know what that is ppm.

The fish seem happy and its been 5 days.

ph and NO2 are the same.

 

[SparKy697]

Hello JJ,

First off, mg/l is the same as ppm.

Second, do a water change! That is really more ammonia than you want to leavein there for an extended period of time. I know that they are a pain to do so often but I think most here would agree, that is a lot of ammonia. Keep doing the changes and testing every day until you notice that the ammonia starts to fall. One day you will go to test the water and you will see no ammonia! Then you get a week off.

 

[joannde]

You want to keep both ammonia and nitrites below 0.5ppm and even less than that if you can. Doing a cycle with fish you've got alot of water changes ahead of you for the next few weeks. With 1.5ppm you'll want to do TWO 50% water changes about 2 hrs apart and then monitor closely.

 

[JayJay]

Hello JJ,

First off, mg/l is the same as ppm.

Second, do a water change! That is really more ammonia than you want to leavein there for an extended period of time. I know that they are a pain to do so often but I think most here would agree, that is a lot of ammonia. Keep doing the changes and testing every day until you notice that the ammonia starts to fall. One day you will go to test the water and you will see no ammonia! Then you get a week off.

Okay, I'm doing 20-30% pwc everyday but the levels are pretty constant (I guess at least they aren't going up). I will get a siphon hose tomorrow as I think the pwc are freaking the fish out.

Should I also warm the water up a little and de-cloriante it before I put it in? Also I'm thinking of keeping a daily "log book" for my little tank.

My workmate said he never worries about chemical levels to much but he has a big tank and mime is tiny so I really need to watch it.

 

[SparKy697]

You can get away with 50% pwc easily, in fact that may be preferred.

Always try to match the water temperature, the fish won't even know what is happening.

Since you have a manageable size tank I would say do the dechlor. in a bucket since it is so easy to do. Pouring water into any size tank can be disturbing. If you can, siphon the water from the bucket back into the tank too.

I never knew as much about the chemistry of a fish tank as I have learned in the past few months. I have had aquariums in the past and quite successfully I used to think, at least most of my fish lived. Who knew you had to test water?

I think the difference is that being informed helps you make the life of your fish less stressful and healthier, as opposed to just surviving. You're going at this the right way.

 

[JayJay]

You can get away with 50% pwc easily, in fact that may be preferred.

Always try to match the water temperature, the fish won't even know what is happening.

Since you have a manageable size tank I would say do the dechlor. in a bucket since it is so easy to do. Pouring water into any size tank can be disturbing. If you can, siphon the water from the bucket back into the tank too.

I never knew as much about the chemistry of a fish tank as I have learned in the past few months. I have had aquariums in the past and quite successfully I used to think, at least most of my fish lived. Who knew you had to test water?

I think the difference is that being informed helps you make the life of your fish less stressful and healthier, as opposed to just surviving. You're going at this the right way.

I did about a 40% pwc today with my new siphon tube. The Ammonia almost (but not quite) droped to zero. It's hard to tell from the colour chart but it looks like 0.1 mg/l. However the pH went up a little to 8. Might my tap water be more alkaline? As always NO2 stayed at 1.

Im running luke warm water (I'm getting pretty good and putting my hand under the tap and guessing 25 degrees C) and preparing it before the change and the fish dont seem to freak out so much (just a little when the tube goes in, they all go and hide). The temperature barely changed at all this time (I think it went down 1 C)

I've learned so much this week. 6 days ago I had no idea about NO2 and NH2 being bad for fish, knew nothing about fish care. Damn I've learned alot so fast. Very interesting though, there's more to keeping pet fish than I ever thought.....

None of my fish have died or even look sick one whole week later.

Thanks.

 

[SparKy697]

Updates!

We crave updates!

 

[JayJay]

Big change.

I went away for a night and a day (visiting the future in-laws) and came back tonight. I tested the water. The Ammonia has settled at about 0 but the NO2 has risen sharply (about 5 now).

The Neon Tetras colour seemed dull but went back to normal after I fed them.

I'll keep doing water changes and the fish seem fime but is this normal? In a cycle do water changes happen in any paticular order? For a long time the Ammonia was changing but not the NO2, now the Ammonia hasn't changed but the NO2 has.

 

[SparKy697]

I'd say it is quite normal.

You are trying to grow two main types of bacteria. One eats ammonia and produces nitrites. The other eats nitrites and produces nitrates. It seems that you now have enough bacteria to handle the amount of ammonia that your current fish load produce because they are eating up almost all the ammonia in the tank as it is produced, although the plants are probably helping to consume some if it as well.

While this has been going on, the bacteria that feed on nitrite have been waiting around for enough food to get fat and happy so they can start reproducing. Now that food is here they will start to multiply, it takes them a little longer to reproduce than the first set of bacteria though.

Keep up the water changes and soon you will be down to one change a week.

 

[JayJay]

The NO2 level fell today back to 1mg/l and the ammonia is now 0. I don't have a NO3 kit so I guess I should get one.

I also added 2 little otos and they seem quite happy in there. I took one plant out because I though 3 swords was a bit much for my tank.

And I swear some of my tetras are getting a little bit bigger.

 

[SparKy697]

Sounds like you have been doing something right

Nice to hear that things are progressing!

 

[cabezon]

good luck. my only suggestion would be to fill the tank above the bottom of the black trim on the top of the tank. It looks like from your pictures you are a few liters shy of a full tank. You have a lid, so jumping shouldnt be a problem.

Also, is there a flourescent under that hood?

 

[JayJay]

good luck. my only suggestion would be to fill the tank above the bottom of the black trim on the top of the tank. It looks like from your pictures you are a few liters shy of a full tank. You have a lid, so jumping shouldnt be a problem.

Also, is there a flourescent under that hood?

Yeah, the levels pretty high now. About 2cm from the filter output. Of course it losses water so I have to keep filling it.

Not sure if my lights flourescent, but I think that would help my plants.

 

[JayJay]

Update.

The NO2 has now dropped to zero. Ammonia zero. pH 7.5.

I bought a NO3 kit and its 10 mg/l.

No fish have died and the Tetras are bigger for sure.

Pandas and Otos are active which I guess means happy.

One more week and the cycle has finished?

My Amazon swords don't look so healthy so I may be spending more time in the planted tank forum.