my ammonia levels wont drop!

[dannii]

i have been doing 1/4 changes every day and i have done the 50 % 2 days ago. i could step and do 50% each day but prob not 2. is there anything else i can do.

 

[Mark Hewitt]

Nothing to add except I'm having the exact same issue.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

What is your pH? There is a relationship between ammonia and pH here

Aquaworld Aquarium - The Ammonia and pH Relationship

so true free ammonia is worse as pH goes up. If you pH is less than 8.0, then what you're seeing on the test kit is mainly harmless Ammonium as your test kit tests for both in combination.

Using Prime to dechlorinate will also bind ammonia into harmless ammonium (for about 24 hours), but it will still be available for nitrifying bacteria to use to complete your cycle.

Therefore I strongly suggest that if you can only perform 1 50% change daily, do that, and add 5mL minimum of Prime during the fill. Preferably, you should do 2x daily if at all possible. Even if it's only a couple hours apart.

 

[dannii]

my PH is between 7.2 and 7.6 .

 

[novaheat]

I used Dr. Tim's One and Only to cycle my tank. After two weeks of cycling I started adding fish. I have had over 40 small fish in a 120 gallon for over a month with 0 ammonia. Dr. Tim claims that with his product there is no need to cycle. I don't think I would go that far but from what I saw concerning the time table of other tanks cycling I think it drastically reduced the time. The cycling would have been faster if I had kept the ammonia dosing lower.

Nova Heat

 

[dannii]

just thought i would update by saying my ammonia is starting to drop now. it is sitting on 1ppm. i know im not out of the woods yet but its a start. thanks for all the help

but i did lost one guppy : (

 

[Kypeli]

thanks. i went out and brought some prime and and i am still doing my water changes everyday. hopfully i will see a change soon.

I would say changing the water every day will prevent you from completing the N cycle.

I am sure there are others with other opinions, but the best thing IMHO for you to do is to add some bacteria product (I've used Tetra SafeStart) and add that every day for a short period until you notice ammonia and NO2 drop.

 

[dannii]

i have been doing my water changes as well as using easylife and stability.

 

[Kypeli]

i have been doing my water changes as well as using easylife and stability.

Yes, but if you change water every day and use easilife, the water change will cancel any effect you would want from the bacteria growth. When you are cycling your tank, you don't want to change the water - until the ammonia or NO2 levels rise to dangerous levels. Which they shouldn't with EasyLife and SafeStart.

Keeping the tank too clean in the beginning before cycle is complete will make the cycle never complete and ammonia levels will keep on rising until the cycle is complete.

 

[dannii]

my ammonia levels rose to 4 ppm on thursday and has only dropped this morning. i only started using easylife on thursday to try to protect the fish as 4 ppm is very high and didnt want my fish to start dying. the ammonia is still sitting on 1ppm so there is still ammonia in the tank.

 

[dkpate]

There is hardly any bacteria in the water column, so changing it is not going to kill it, as long as you use dechlorinator. The good bacteria lives in the filter media, tank walls and on the decorations and substrate.

 

[XimeD]

I would say changing the water every day will prevent you from completing the N cycle.

I am sure there are others with other opinions, but the best thing IMHO for you to do is to add some bacteria product (I've used Tetra SafeStart) and add that every day for a short period until you notice ammonia and NO2 drop.

I am one of those with another opinion. I am with dkpate 100%, the bacteria don't live in the water column so as long as one uses dechlorinator PWCs do not stall the cycle.

What are you basing your statement on?

Side note: I am not trying to change your opinion or even claiming that my opinion is absolutely right, it is just my opinion and I have my reasons for it, I am just curious about what evidence/experience you are basing this on. When I started my first tank (4 months ago) the guy at the LFS said the very same thing to me; "don't change your water or your tank will never cycle", I believed him and almost lost all my fish. Also, if you think changing the water will stall the cycle how do you propose she keeps the ammonia down? (again the guy at the LFS told me to use ammo-lock for this and ammo-lock WILL stall the cycle)

 

[Gus]

I never had good or any results using additives and 'bacteria in a bottle' products.

 

[BillD]

Water changes may lengthen the cycle time by removing the ammonia that the bacteria feed on, thus slowing their growth. Ammonia is toxic above pH7, not pH8 as stated. Still, if the ammonia were 4ppm, I think there would be some deaths. Ammo Lock should not stall the cycle. It renders the ammonia non toxic, but does not remove it. It is still available to the bacteria.

 

[Mark Hewitt]

No no no! This is the kind of mid-advice that makes beginners lives more difficult. Water changes are good thing when cycling with fish.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

+1 on Ammo lock

+1 on water changes. Any ammonia level in the system will feed bacteria, plus your fish are constantly producing it just by gilling (it is exhaled through the gills) Keep them as low as you possibly can.

 

[XimeD]

Water changes may lengthen the cycle time by removing the ammonia that the bacteria feed on, thus slowing their growth. Ammonia is toxic above pH7, not pH8 as stated. Still, if the ammonia were 4ppm, I think there would be some deaths. Ammo Lock should not stall the cycle. It renders the ammonia non toxic, but does not remove it. It is still available to the bacteria.

IME ammo-lock will stall the cycle (I read online that this happened to a lot more people not just me) also, very high (>5ppm) ammonia and/or nitrites will stall it too.

Regarding ammonia toxicity: ammonia (NH3) reacts with water to form ammonium ions (NH4+), ammomiun is the non-toxic form. pH is a measure of the concentration of H+ but it is a -log scale, so the lower the pH, the higher the conc. of H+, the more H+ ions available means more of the NH4+ form. I am going to try not to get too much into chemistry here, basically there is something called pKa which is a value that we use to measure acidity, for NH4+ the pKa is 9.25. This means that at a pH of 9.25 50% is in the form NH3 and 50% is the form NH4+. As the pH goes below 9.25 there is less and less NH3 around, it doesn't mean there is no NH3 around, for this reason I feel setting a limit pH under which ammonia is no longer toxic is inaccurate and misleading. IMO the rule of keeping ammonia under 0.25ppm regardless of pH is a much better rule to keep fish healthy and stress free.

Regarding PWC and cycle time: the only way that PWC would stall the cycle is if someone was doing so many WCs as to keep ammonia CONSTANT at 0ppm. However, most people cycling with fish have the opposite problem, their fish produce ammonia faster than the bacteria can consume it. So even, if that person did a PWC to bring ammonia to 0, the fish in there will produce ammonia to replace it, so unless they are doing WCs permanently every few hours I dont see how PWCs stall the cycle by depriving bacteria of food. I think the need for a PWC is equivalent to excess food for the bacteria.

 

[dannii]

just thought i would up date and say that my tank has finally cycled. so thanks for the advice

 

[dkpate]

YAYYY! Let the fun begin!

 

[XimeD]

Congrats!!!!!! Fish shopping time!