my poor betta is so messed up.....any suggestions?

[Autumnsky]

Tetracycline doesn't treat gram negative.

Magnesium Sulphate also spelled sulfate, aka Epsom Salts.

Pure, no additives, available in large quantity from warehouse stores (and great use as a bath additive for humans - adding a little baking soda and drops of essential oils, for relieving stress from fish problems and everyday life ) Otherwise the local stores have it in the grocery store and pharmacy.

 

[fishychick]

Ok, Lollipop is back in his tank, which I think may actually be a 2.5 gallon, not a 5 gallon. Maybe part of the problem? He's got his cave, one fake plant and some hornwort for now. Epsom salt included (a little shout out to my husband for going out when he didn't want to just to get some Epsom salt for me while I did pwc on all the tanks, thanks honey!)
Acclimated him slowly (Betta, not husband) will search for a better heater and more hiding places for tank this weekend.
Also, Lollipop totally pooped! At first I wasn't sure what it was because it seemed to big to be poop, but after careful inspection/dissection I concluded that it was, in fact, a blob of poop (photos on request, feel free to pm me)
I'm thinking I'll do 50% WC everyday for awhile and see how he does? Then work towards 50% twice a week. Autumnsky, how long do I keep up with the Epsom salt and daily water changes? Wish me luck! I really hope he gets better. Thanks all of you for all your help.


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[Autumnsky]

Ok, Lollipop is back in his tank, which I think may actually be a 2.5 gallon, not a 5 gallon. Maybe part of the problem? He's got his cave, one fake plant and some hornwort for now. Epsom salt included (a little shout out to my husband for going out when he didn't want to just to get some Epsom salt for me while I did pwc on all the tanks, thanks honey!)
Acclimated him slowly (Betta, not husband) will search for a better heater and more hiding places for tank this weekend.
Also, Lollipop totally pooped! At first I wasn't sure what it was because it seemed to big to be poop, but after careful inspection/dissection I concluded that it was, in fact, a blob of poop (photos on request, feel free to pm me)
I'm thinking I'll do 50% WC everyday for awhile and see how he does? Then work towards 50% twice a week. Autumnsky, how long do I keep up with the Epsom salt and daily water changes? Wish me luck! I really hope he gets better. Thanks all of you for all your help.


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Yay for poop, lol.

Can you describe? Normal but a lot? Reddish brown? Or white, stringy???

I would try 2 weeks with the Epsom salts, do pwc 50% every day and follow along on parameters. If you need to change the water more often then you should. If your filter in that tank was dried out you lost the BB, if it is moist you MIGHT still have some in there to start with.

Otherwise you have a uncycled tank. So lots of pwc are a very good idea anyway.

Good job being supportive hubby!

I would also feed a tiny amount of the blood worms if he wants to eat them, They are like the treats not necessarily the main thing for food. I like Hikari Biogold Betta food and find it to be a nice basic food, doesn't cloud or tint the water. I also use freeze dried (Hikari frozen is OK too for bloodworms they have a special thing to help avoid disease from them) Brine shrimp too. If you can buy or hatch some live brine shrimp they really love them too. Feed sparingly. You really want to be sure that the fish eat all the foods so you don't get the leftovers producing ammonia.

Remember if you don't see damaged gills or parasites See if you can get the stress coat too. Though he should start healing with bigger water volume and good sized pwc.

You can even add a pea once in awhile. A varied diet makes for a healthy fish, though they mostly like meaty foods.

 

[Delapool]

This is probably just me but I'm not quite convinced bettas with the showy finage they seem to have these days can do well in quite small tanks. Is it just me or is there a casual link between bettas with fin issues and small tanks at or below 5gal? I'll just say it - a 2.5 gal I'd replace to 5 or 10 and see what people's thoughts are.

 

[Autumnsky]

This is probably just me but I'm not quite convinced bettas with the showy finage they seem to have these days can do well in quite small tanks. Is it just me or is there a casual link between bettas with fin issues and small tanks at or below 5gal? I'll just say it - a 2.5 gal I'd replace to 5 or 10 and see what people's thoughts are.

I would say it is usually the filtration (or lack of) or pwc schedule. Plus I imagine the fish sit in the cups with ammonia burned fins and gills and the stress doesn't do them any favors, short term or long term.

Through the years with lots of plants and other stuff, I think 2.5G is the minimum size and the Plackets are better for a smaller tank that size and some fish aren't big movers and some want to swim everywhere so some depends on the fish's personality.

Poor care in a larger tank is worse than a smaller tank and excellent care, so it really depends on the keeper too, as well as the size of the tank, my 2 cents, lol.

 

[Delapool]

Good points, thanks for the information. Yes, I look at the lfs cups they are in and really wonder how they can maintain form in those small things.

 

[fishychick]

Yay for poop, lol.



Can you describe? Normal but a lot? Reddish brown? Or white, stringy???

It was a strikingly large soft brown blob. Seriously, I have photos, lol.

I threw away the filter media and need to get more so yes, it's an uncycled tank, unfortunately. But I'll stay on top of water changes and check parameters. I think i may have some stress coat. For some reason I thought it was the same thing as adding BB (Night Out I think it's called?) but that's not right, is it?


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[Autumnsky]

It was a strikingly large soft brown blob. Seriously, I have photos, lol.

I threw away the filter media and need to get more so yes, it's an uncycled tank, unfortunately. But I'll stay on top of water changes and check parameters. I think i may have some stress coat. For some reason I thought it was the same thing as adding BB (Night Out I think it's called?) but that's not right, is it?


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Sounds like he was constipated. Is he looking any better since the big poop?

Stresscoat is not BB (beneficial bacteria). Not sure of the other thing you mentioned.

 

[fishychick]

Sounds like he was constipated. Is he looking any better since the big poop?

No...He looks like death warmed over. I'm not sure how, but he's still kicking. Barely has a fin left on his poor little grey body.

 

[Autumnsky]

You might better try antiboitics then.

 

[fishychick]

You might better try antiboitics then.

Any suggestions as to what kind? I have Melafix, and Betta Revive, but I'm guessing I need something else?

 

[Delapool]

What's tank temp now and did the betta revive make any difference? How long did you use it? I'd try that again over the melafix.

 

[cebalrai]

Any suggestions as to what kind? I have Melafix, and Betta Revive, but I'm guessing I need something else?

*waves arms for the third time in this thread*


Tetracycline. ASAP.

Melafix and Betta Revive aren't even medicine. They're pretty useless. You need an antibiotic.

I would just stick him in a glass bowl with maybe a rock or something and dose tetracycline.....

 

[Delapool]

*waves arms for the third time in this thread*


Tetracycline. ASAP.

Melafix and Betta Revive aren't even medicine. They're pretty useless. You need an antibiotic.

I would just stick him in a glass bowl with maybe a rock or something and dose tetracycline.....

Second ingredient after water.

http://www.hikariusa.com/solutions/healthaid/betta-revive/

http://www.algone.com/bacteria-and-antibiotics-in-the-aquarium

Tetracycline mainly treats gram positive bacterial infections where as most tank bacteria infections are gram negative. I'm curious why it should be used as I wouldn't.

Edit - first link seems down so found another one

http://www.vitamingrocer.com.au/Betta-Revive-0-08-oz-p/306567.htm

 

[Autumnsky]

Fin rot as, already stated is generally as a result of gram negative infection. Maracyn II (Two) will usually work well.

The key ingredients in the Revive are good for the gram negative bacteria. I have never used this product.

Clean water #1 requirement.

Also Maracyn II (Two) isn't cheap. You can reduce the water level to a certain amount, say 2 gallons or whatever number makes it easier to dose. Make sure to use the medicine for at least the recommended number of days, as with any antibiotic if you don't treat and kill all the bacteria they can grow into stronger antibiotic resistant variants.

 

[cebalrai]

Second ingredient after water.

Betta Revive | Hikari Sales USA

Bacteria and antibiotics in the aquarium - Algone

Tetracycline mainly treats gram positive bacterial infections where as most tank bacteria infections are gram negative. I'm curious why it should be used as I wouldn't.

Edit - first link seems down so found another one

Hikari Usa Inc. - Aquarium Solutions - Betta Revive .08 Oz - VitaminGrocer.com.au

Tetracycline treats gram negative and gram positive bacterial infections.

"Tetracyclines were discovered in the 1940s and exhibited activity against a wide range of microorganisms including gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, chlamydiae, mycoplasmas, rickettsiae, and protozoan parasites."

http://mmbr.asm.org/content/65/2/232.full

 

[Delapool]

Tetracycline treats gram negative and gram positive bacterial infections.

"Tetracyclines were discovered in the 1940s and exhibited activity against a wide range of microorganisms including gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, chlamydiae, mycoplasmas, rickettsiae, and protozoan parasites."

http://mmbr.asm.org/content/65/2/232.full

Thanks for the article.

The article refers to the tetracycline family whereas I believe we are talking about the tetracycline hydrochloride class specifically for treatment use. The link below goes more in depth.

Both in reading and from practical use I find tetracycline hydrochloride not to be as useful.

Could the link be incorrect?? Well, apart from minor bits I've never managed to find new information or reading to contradict this.

Have a look through. I shall continue some research this end.


http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html


Edit - if anyone has any other research articles, perhaps PM me?? I don't want to stray off topic (apologies to OP) but would appreciate any links.

 

[fishychick]

I appreciate all of the help and information. I have to admit its a bit confusing with the opposite points of view but I am so grateful for the help. Lollipop is somehow still hanging on, although losing fins everyday and looking generally horrible. He is eating and oddly has more energy than he did when this whole thing started. I'm still treating him with Epsom salt and doing 75% daily water changes. I've been looking but haven't been able to find any if the antibiotics mentioned. I have one or two places to check out today, hoping to find some options. Although it's hard to know what to use when I'm still not sure what I'm treating. Either way, any and all information is totally appreciated. I'm learning a lot. I think some guppies in my 20 gallon are now showing signs if fin rot so I think it's fair to say that what I thought was sufficient water changes, weekly care, etc, for all my tanks, is not enough. This is an awesome but sometimes humbling hobby. Thanks you guys.


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[cebalrai]

API tetracyline:

"TC Tetracycline is an anti-bacterial medication for common tropical fish diseases such as fin & tail rot, open red sores, body slime and eye cloud, bacterial gill disease and hemorrhagic septicemia. For use in freshwater aquariums. Contains 10 powder packets. Use 1 packet per 10 gallons of water. Shipping weight: 1/6 lb."

It's cured fin rot for me twice now plus popeye.

Fishychick, you can get it at most local fish stores. If not you can order it online. I'm not sure what you're waiting for.

Welcome to API Fishcare: T.C. TETRACYCLINE™ POWDER

 

[Delapool]

I appreciate all of the help and information. I have to admit its a bit confusing with the opposite points of view but I am so grateful for the help. Lollipop is somehow still hanging on, although losing fins everyday and looking generally horrible. He is eating and oddly has more energy than he did when this whole thing started. I'm still treating him with Epsom salt and doing 75% daily water changes. I've been looking but haven't been able to find any if the antibiotics mentioned. I have one or two places to check out today, hoping to find some options. Although it's hard to know what to use when I'm still not sure what I'm treating. Either way, any and all information is totally appreciated. I'm learning a lot. I think some guppies in my 20 gallon are now showing signs if fin rot so I think it's fair to say that what I thought was sufficient water changes, weekly care, etc, for all my tanks, is not enough. This is an awesome but sometimes humbling hobby. Thanks you guys.


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How did you get on?

Ime, if you get the tank environment stable you are half way there. Something like temp or ammonia spikes will undo all the good work so quickly.

Meds - up to you. Pick one and try it.