New Fish Person Learning Curve

[ColoFishGuy]

I set my 60 gallon aquarium up the end of July. I have a Marineland Penquin 350 filter setup for the tank. I let the tank stabilize a week before adding my first 3 fish. Everything seemed to be going ok and being a newbie and wanting to see an active tank I added too many fish too soon...water became toxic and i lost all but my plecko.

I drained about 50% out of the tank ...cleaned all the plants and decor and let the tank cycle again. I know have the plecko 3 black fin tetras and 3 Gouramis. My ph/nitrite/nitrate levels look ok however my ammonia keeps getting worse. I use Seachem Prime as indicated. I am using the API Master kit for testing the chemical levels. I bought the ammonia indicator from Seachem....it indicates safe levels while the API test is showing high levels.

Which test can I trust???? How can I tell if my tank is cycled properly?

Thanks for taking the time to respond to a newbie.
Gary

 

[phin9009]

I believe that the Seachem measures free ammonia vs ammonium (which isn't toxic)
Prime and similar products are said to convert ammonia to ammonium for a short period of time, which may be why the Seachem shows safe levels. The API test, on the other hand doesn't differentiate between the 2, and will show toxic levels even if it is ammonium not ammonia

 

[ColoFishGuy]

ok...so what do i do

Okay, I confirmed what you said on the Seachem site. So should the filter eventually take care of this converted ammonia? Should I do aggressive 10-15% water changes to help this along?

I have a lost a couple platys....do I need to do anything when losing a fish?

Thanks for your time...trying to absorb as much info as I can.

 

[phin9009]

Yes, the bacteria will use ammonium as they use ammonia.

Other than making sure to remove it from the tank, I don't think you need to do anything else.

I know how that goes, I have been plaguing people with questions while doing my fishless cycle trying to learn every tiny detail I can

 

[ColoFishGuy]

I want to make sure I am understanding this. So I should NOT have to do any aggressive 10-15% water changes (say every 24 hrs) just let the filter and bacteria handle things?

 

[phin9009]

You'll want to keep testing and doing water changes any time the ammonia shows above 0.25. Use your discretion on whether you do this based on the API or the Secahem results. I do know that with Prime you have to continue dosing it in the tank (I can't remember how often and have never used it myself) for it to keep the ammonia converted to ammonium

 

[molliwopp]

If your fish are dying you arnt changing enough water. 15% is not considered aggressive when cycling a tank with fish in. You want to be.changing out water whenever your ammonia test read above .5

As time progresses, bacteria will form that will start to convert the ammonia into nitrite. Nitrite will then convert to nirate. Until the tank starts to convert them by itself, you need to change water when need to keep your fish alive.

 

[ColoFishGuy]

According to SEACHEM support the dosing should be every 48hrs. It holds the bound molecules in the ammonium state for that period of time.

Here is my plan of attack...let me know if this makes sense. I will do a 10-15% swap every 24hrs for 7 days....checking my chemicals before each swap. I will dose the water that i replenish appropriately with the Seachem Prime.

 

[phin9009]

I would think that would be a good plan as long as parameters stay safe for the fish

 

[ColoFishGuy]

Molliwop...my problem is the conflicting information i have on my ammonia levels. According to the Seachem Ammonia Alert its ok...but according to the API test its high...so I don't have a way of really knowing....I would think doing 10-15% on a daily basis would be sufficient to reduce it over a weeks time. If you do not consider this aggressive enough what would your suggestions be?

 

[jlk]

What exactly does the API read for ammonia? What is your ph?

First, your making a few assumptions here. The seachem alert is some chart thing you stick in your tank, not a liquid test, correct? Next, while ammonium is nowhere as toxic as free ammonia, it's still not healthy for fish. If your losing fish, it's due to high ammonia/ammonium levels combined. I doubt the alert thing is even accurate just further skewing your perception of what's actually happening.

If you want your remaining fish to survive, an aggressive wc schedule means 50% anytime your API test reads .25ppm or higher. This may be daily, every other day or even a few times a day. Prime gives you some wiggle room but I wouldn't allow levels to go higher than .50. It's also worth noting it's effectiveness runs a 24-48hr margin but I would play it safe and keep it 24hrs.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/artic...g-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html

 

[molliwopp]

What exactly does the API read for ammonia? What is your ph?

First, your making a few assumptions here. The seachem alert is some chart thing you stick in your tank, not a liquid test, correct? Next, while ammonium is nowhere as toxic as free ammonia, it's still not healthy for fish. If your losing fish, it's due to high ammonia/ammonium levels combined. I doubt the alert thing is even accurate just further skewing your perception of what's actually happening.

If you want your remaining fish to survive, an aggressive wc schedule means 50% anytime your API test reads .25ppm or higher. This may be daily, every other day or even a few times a day. Prime gives you some wiggle room but I wouldn't allow levels to go higher than .50. It's also worth noting it's effectiveness runs a 24-48hr margin but I would play it safe and keep it 24hrs.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/124/2/-I-just-learned-about-cycling-but-I-already-have-fish-What-now/Page2.html

< Good advice.

 

[ColoFishGuy]

API Readings today

My API test readings are:
PH 7.2
High PH 7.8
Nitrite and Nitrate 0ppm
Ammonia 2ppm

I will be starting 50% water change today. The reason I was using the SEACHEM AMMONIA ALERT is according to their website and support people it is the only thing available that measures "Free Ammonia". Their recommendation was Dose the Tank...48hrs later to a water change and dose the tank again.

I am trying to do whats right for the aquarium. I noticed one of your recommendatoin was maybe a 50% change more than once a day...12hrs apart? what would you recommend. How quickly should I see a change in the API test for ammonia? sorry if i am being a pain...just going through growing pains here.

thanks
Gary

 

[Mebbid]

Okay, I confirmed what you said on the Seachem site. So should the filter eventually take care of this converted ammonia? Should I do aggressive 10-15% water changes to help this along?

I have a lost a couple platys....do I need to do anything when losing a fish?

Thanks for your time...trying to absorb as much info as I can.

Any time you lose a fish the first thing you should do is to check the water parameters after taking the dead fish out. If the levels of either the ammonia or nitrite are .5ppm or above you need to do a 50% water change asap.

I want to make sure I am understanding this. So I should NOT have to do any aggressive 10-15% water changes (say every 24 hrs) just let the filter and bacteria handle things?

I agree with the 50% water change. This should be a standard amount of water to change out.

Molliwop...my problem is the conflicting information i have on my ammonia levels. According to the Seachem Ammonia Alert its ok...but according to the API test its high...so I don't have a way of really knowing....I would think doing 10-15% on a daily basis would be sufficient to reduce it over a weeks time. If you do not consider this aggressive enough what would your suggestions be?

Trust the API test over the Ammonia alert badge.

My API test readings are:
PH 7.2
High PH 7.8
Nitrite and Nitrate 0ppm
Ammonia 2ppm

I will be starting 50% water change today. The reason I was using the SEACHEM AMMONIA ALERT is according to their website and support people it is the only thing available that measures "Free Ammonia". Their recommendation was Dose the Tank...48hrs later to a water change and dose the tank again.

I am trying to do whats right for the aquarium. I noticed one of your recommendatoin was maybe a 50% change more than once a day...12hrs apart? what would you recommend. How quickly should I see a change in the API test for ammonia? sorry if i am being a pain...just going through growing pains here.

thanks
Gary

You can do a 50% water change back to back with 1 - 2 hours between them to allow the fish time to calm down and the water to circulate and adjust. If your ammonia is at 2ppm you will need to do 3 50% water changes today to get it down to safe levels. Those 3 changes should put you down to .25ppm

After a water change you can wait half an hour to test the water again to see what the levels have dropped down to.

How much are you feeding your fish? Also, have you ever changed out the filter pad in your tank?

 

[ColoFishGuy]

latest info

Just finished first 50% water change. Yes, filters were changed out last Friday. I orginally was feed the fish twice a day....5am .... and about 5pm....i have gone to once a day feeding and they are eating everything i put in within 2-3 minutes.

Is it ok to put a algae wafer tab in the tank as well? They seem to enjoy munching on them as does the plecostomus.

I am planning on another 50% change in about 3 hours...need to run out and do a couple errands. I really appreciate the feedback.

 

[Mebbid]

Just finished first 50% water change. Yes, filters were changed out last Friday. I orginally was feed the fish twice a day....5am .... and about 5pm....i have gone to once a day feeding and they are eating everything i put in within 2-3 minutes.

Is it ok to put a algae wafer tab in the tank as well? They seem to enjoy munching on them as does the plecostomus.

I am planning on another 50% change in about 3 hours...need to run out and do a couple errands. I really appreciate the feedback.

Yes, the algae wafer is good to use. You need to feed your pleco regularly.

Changing your filter on the other hand is a very very bad idea. I know the filter companies tell you to do it regularly but that's just so they make more money. Every time you switch out the filter pad you are removing most of the built up bacteria in your tank causing ammonia issues. Your tank should be cycled by now if you hadn't been changing out your filter pads.

 

[ColoFishGuy]

really??? wow

well ain't that a kick in the pants....so what is the recommendation for changing filter pads? btw....just finished 2nd water change and ammonia level is coming down as expected....doing the 3rd one in about 3 hours

 

[Mebbid]

I haven't changed out any filter media this year actually. It just depends on how bad of a condition it's in. When its literally falling apart and deteriorating then it's time to change out for a new pad but even this has to be done in a specific way. You need to leave the old filter pad in the filter with the new one for at least 2 weeks to seed the new pad with bacteria before you can remove the old pad from the tank.

 

[ColoFishGuy]

that makes sense

The Penguin 350 has 2 slots on each side....i could set them up so that the water would draw through the dirty one into the clean one...and then into the tank. You have been a great help.

 

[Fishperson]

As far as pads go, you can wash them/clean them by swishing them gently in old tank water (not in the tank, but water that you took out of the tank from a water change, perhaps). If you do that once a month or so, your pads could last for 6 months, easy.