not sure what

[TheChefSLC]

I have something wrong with my fish. I am not quite sure what. There seems to be multiple symptoms.

My tank is a 36bf moderately planted
was dosing daily 3ml excel until current issues. was just after morning feeding
dosing weekly 3ml flourish
using prime for my water changes
moderate lighting finnex ray 2
lights are on a timer 4 on, 4 off, 4 on
feeding happens in am frozen blood worms on sunday, omega one super color flakes on the other days. 1 day will be a fasting day and is random
light surface agitation with power head (as needed)
weekly 30-40% water change
parameters

• pH 8
• Ammonia 0
• Nitrite 0
• Nitrate 5-10
• Temp 79
• hardness 200 (1-11-15)
• alkalinity 180 (1-11-15)

stocked

• 13 neon tetra's (3 of these came from my 5g)
• 2 blue rams
• 3 oto's
• 1 guppy
• ghost shrimp (unknown number but less than 5)

symptoms are as follows

• 4 dead guppies, 3 of these came from my 5g and 2 of them has missing tails
• one of the dead guppies appears to have died due to stress, there were no real signs of other issues and I did not get any pictures of it. This happened after I moved the 3 males from the 5g to the 36bf. This guppy was one I bought for my initial stocking of my tank
• another one died and had half of it's tail missing. This was one from the 5g. This happened after I moved a male mollie from the 20L (replaced my 5g for my female guppy tank). I noticed a lot of aggression and stress from the mollie.
• another guppy died and he was basically murdered. He had no tail issues until he died, and was from the 5g (only guppy with a nice tail of the 3 from that tank). My ram's spawned that night, however, the mollie and that guppy i noticed what appeared to be fighting that day so I think he killed that one.
• my other guppy that died appeared to have a translucent head. This was almost there when I initially transferred him from the 5g. His tail was pretty bad but was getting better till i added the mollie. I removed the mollie and then his tailed was looking better but he could not pull through
• had a female blue ram with a red spot on her side. this turned out to be a hemorrhage. Upon death, I noticed that her anal area has a red spot and was a little sunken in
• i had one of 4 oto's die after having it for 10 days, I assumed this is due to the nature of that fish
• 1 of my large neon tetra's (could have been from the 5g) can see his gills a bit and they are a deep maroon
• my tiny neon tetra (yes he really is TINY) has been bloated. After a couple after I noticed, a couple days later, he passed a large white lumpy poop. I was not able to watch the whole passing due to having to leave, nor could I locate it after. He has since started looking normal as far as his body goes
• my ram's like to get air on the surface, they do this a few times a day. They do not look stressed for air, nor can i see if other's are doing the same.
• My male ram will flash and appears to focus on his tummy or mouth area. I have also seen my remaining guppy flash on plants.
• my tetra's appear to race around and sometimes they appear to crash or rub into each other.

I no longer have a QT since I have homed the bad mollie there.

I have been researching this and I am thinking that I may have Hex. As such, I have started feeding garlic and garlic soaked flakes.

Any other idea's on this? I will get some pictures posted shortly.

Hexamita Symptoms: slimy, white mucous feces, swimming backwards, blacken in color.

And this description leads me to believe that this is indeed part or all of my issue I am facing.

1 of my dead guppies did indeed start to get a black tail end of his body a couple days before death. The bloating of the tetra and the lumpy white poo could account for this. Also, as this is an internal parasite, It could easily account for my dead female ram. The red hemorrhage, the red and sunken in anus area after death.

As for my other "healthy" fish, I do not think they will really get issues with this, however, It is very possible they could. Anyone able to confirm this or have any other idea's? I really want to find out what I am dealing with. The sooner I know, the sooner I will be able to get this taken care of.

 

[TheChefSLC]

some pics, a couple more to come

1. general tank layout. has change a bit due to plant growth
2. neon tetra passing a poo, long, lumpy, and white
3. neon tetra with gill issues
4. bloated neon tetra (same as in pic #2)

 

[TheChefSLC]

1. dead guppy happened after fighting with mollie the day before, had no tail issues
2. 2nd dead guppy. happened day after adding mollie to tank, but can clearly see his tail turning black
3. last dead guppy, can see his head turned translucent
4. red spot on female ram, she died a day or 2 later in the QT with melefix

 

[philipraposo198]

you have a very sick tank atm. internal parasite is very likely. I would suggest something like a API general cure for the full treatment duration. then reassess. before starting treating do some large water changes and get nitrates below 5ppm. make sure temp is matched as close as possible.

 

[Brookster123]

Unfortunately your entire stock is on my unofficial "fish that die for non good reason" list. Like those are in the top 5. I'd skip the meds and stay up on large water changes. The guppies tails are probably getting nibbled after they die. Ime those fish have all been the most delicate and would go belly up for no apparent reason. Once you get good stock and they get settled they should stick around for a little while. I have 3 green neons, 2 neons and a cardinal tetra.. started with 6 of each, kept padding the herd when I lost some. The remaining 6 have been going strong for over a year, the big neon is almost 2". That ram could be a candidate for qt with internal parasite meds. You could dose the tank with erythromycin too.

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[TheChefSLC]

you have a very sick tank atm. internal parasite is very likely. I would suggest something like a API general cure for the full treatment duration. then reassess. before starting treating do some large water changes and get nitrates below 5ppm. make sure temp is matched as close as possible.

my nitrate's are generally less than 5 and no more than 10. so no need to get them lower, today they would be at my guess without a high resolution test would be 3.

As for using a general cure medication for my tank, this does seem reasonable. as such, I am feeding fresh crushed garlic with my omega one flakes soaked in garlic juice.

also, how does the API general cure affect my plants?

Unfortunately your entire stock is on my unofficial "fish that die for non good reason" list. Like those are in the top 5. I'd skip the meds and stay up on large water changes. The guppies tails are probably getting nibbled after they die. Ime those fish have all been the most delicate and would go belly up for no apparent reason. Once you get good stock and they get settled they should stick around for a little while. I have 3 green neons, 2 neons and a cardinal tetra.. started with 6 of each, kept padding the herd when I lost some. The remaining 6 have been going strong for over a year, the big neon is almost 2". That ram could be a candidate for qt with internal parasite meds. You could dose the tank with erythromycin too.

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I can understand that Brookster. As for the guppies. the only one that I know did not happen pre-death was the turquoise fantail (the dark colored one). the others that died all had their tails removed while alive. This did happen after I moved the mollie from the 20L to the front room 36, with the exception of the orange one with the black tail, he was in QT and treated with melefix. He was from the 5g and had a rough tail before moving to the 36. This leads me to believe that the mollie was the one nipping the tails. Most likely brought on by stress and trying to be dominate and claim his spot in the tank.

Right now, my oldest fish is now the male blue ram, he has been a real sturdy fish for sure! He has had his tail eaten by a couple red zebra's, survived a 5g for 2 months that was beyond over stocked, and lost his mate after the first spawn. (best first time mommy fish i've seen/read about for sure)

Right now, there is no way for me to QT my fish. My wife would kill me if i bought a new tank or even a steralite tub since id need a heater and filter. so I if i do any treating beyond my garlic, it will need to be whole tank. How does erythromycin affect my plants? my plants are the least of my worries, but having them die would such and I just don't want ot move them to the 20L without knowing what I am dealing with. I am just too scared for a bleach dip of them!

 

[Brookster123]

Some fish will nip and pester sick fish, they try to keep them confined to a corner, makes sense I guess. The erythromycin will not harm plants or bio filter, it can help open sores and it will work on some algae for you too..

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[TheChefSLC]

I have gone ahead and purchased ParaGuard and it should be here in a couple of days. I only have chain stores in my area and not able to goto my favorite store since I work all week.

I went with ParaGuard since it contains Maracyn one which is erythromycin. I am also a fan of SeaChem products.

However, I have been checking a bit more and found that this does not necessarily treat internal parasites very well. How would combining this with metro work?

Also, how does metro affect my plants? It would not be the end of the world if i lost my plants, just a waste of money for sure though.

 

[doctordamen]

sorry to hear about your fish... just wondering why your lights are on a 4 hour cycle?? could that possibly be messing up their internal clock? i would think a 24h light schedule would be better for everyone, 18on/6off for summer like conditions and 12/12 for winter. or since they are tropical fish 18/6 year round.

 

[Fresh2o]

sorry to hear about your fish... just wondering why your lights are on a 4 hour cycle?? could that possibly be messing up their internal clock? i would think a 24h light schedule would be better for everyone, 18on/6off for summer like conditions and 12/12 for winter. or since they are tropical fish 18/6 year round.

The 4 on/off/on is actually 8 hours of light per day. It is on at (for example) 8 am and off at noon. Then on at 4 pm and off at 8 pm (for the rest of the night). It's what's termed a split photoperiod or siesta. It allows the plants to get 8 hours of light but adds a period of no light during the day. It's meant to help control algae outbreaks due to too long of a duration of light.


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[TheChefSLC]

sorry to hear about your fish... just wondering why your lights are on a 4 hour cycle?? could that possibly be messing up their internal clock? i would think a 24h light schedule would be better for everyone, 18on/6off for summer like conditions and 12/12 for winter. or since they are tropical fish 18/6 year round.

The 4 on/off/on is actually 8 hours of light per day. It is on at (for example) 8 am and off at noon. Then on at 4 pm and off at 8 pm (for the rest of the night). It's what's termed a split photoperiod or siesta. It allows the plants to get 8 hours of light but adds a period of no light during the day. It's meant to help control algae outbreaks due to too long of a duration of light.


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What fresh said. This is why. it is very common with planted tanks. Also it is nap time in my house and the lights are just too bright to sleep for those at home still (wife who starts her day at 2am, and 2 little girls)

 

[doctordamen]

Roger that... I'm a horticulturalist and grow a lot of plants year round.. I had never hear of that before.. Thanks! Looks like I have a research topic for tonight lol


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[Delapool]

I have gone ahead and purchased ParaGuard and it should be here in a couple of days. I only have chain stores in my area and not able to goto my favorite store since I work all week.

I went with ParaGuard since it contains Maracyn one which is erythromycin. I am also a fan of SeaChem products.

However, I have been checking a bit more and found that this does not necessarily treat internal parasites very well. How would combining this with metro work?

Also, how does metro affect my plants? It would not be the end of the world if i lost my plants, just a waste of money for sure though.

Are you sure the paraguard has erythromycin?

Medicated fish foods are a great way to treat a sick fish and reduce impact on your tank.

 

[Delapool]

Roger that... I'm a horticulturalist and grow a lot of plants year round.. I had never hear of that before.. Thanks! Looks like I have a research topic for tonight lol


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Would be interested in any research. The idea (as I understand it), is that plants can get going quicker and the split period helps them compared to algae.

 

[TheChefSLC]

Are you sure the paraguard has erythromycin?

Medicated fish foods are a great way to treat a sick fish and reduce impact on your tank.

indeed it does, Erythtomycin is the same as Maracyn one, which paraguard does have.

I am going to be treating the entire tank with this to try and kill of anything that my be on the plants/hardscape/substrate. I also ordered some metro flakes from Peabody's I figured that treating the internal parasite(s) with the food will be the best for sure. but i also need to treat the tank in case there is something living in there that could come back. My fish are not that expensive, but i feel I need to do what i can, within reason, to help them since I am responsible for their well being.

 

[TheChefSLC]

Would be interested in any research. The idea (as I understand it), is that plants can get going quicker and the split period helps them compared to algae.

i too would be interested in what you find out. All of my pre-planted research for the 2 weeks i spend recommended this. Also, after upgrading my light, i found my plants get "stressed" if I do not give them a break and seem to grow better being split like this.

 

[Delapool]

indeed it does, Erythtomycin is the same as Maracyn one, which paraguard does have.



I am going to be treating the entire tank with this to try and kill of anything that my be on the plants/hardscape/substrate. I also ordered some metro flakes from Peabody's I figured that treating the internal parasite(s) with the food will be the best for sure. but i also need to treat the tank in case there is something living in there that could come back. My fish are not that expensive, but i feel I need to do what i can, within reason, to help them since I am responsible for their well being.

Can't see it here?

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/ParaGuard.html

 

[TheChefSLC]

Can't see it here?

Seachem. ParaGuard

i tried finding the ingredients but could not. I found my info from amazon answers for it. I know it could be wrong, but they generally have not been. I plan on reaching out to seachem on it since I could not find anything conclusive.

 

[Delapool]

i tried finding the ingredients but could not. I found my info from amazon answers for it. I know it could be wrong, but they generally have not been. I plan on reaching out to seachem on it since I could not find anything conclusive.

Usually seachem website is quite good on info (apart from telling you how great the product is I find).

 

[TheChefSLC]

i tried finding the ingredients but could not. I found my info from amazon answers for it. I know it could be wrong, but they generally have not been. I plan on reaching out to seachem on it since I could not find anything conclusive.

I reached out to SeaChem and found that I was indeed wrong. This does not contain it.

It contains no antibiotics, but does to its job fairly well.

My metro food will help once I get it on Monday