OMG I give UP !!!! what can I do ??

[joannde]

I do NOT believe this. the BGA in the 10G tank is BACK !!! I really hope I'm just having a nightmare and that I'll wake up from it !!!

This was a divided tank for 4 bettas. Its been through a 3 day blackout, a 5 day blackout, and 8 day blackout and total tank breakdown - new substrate, everything washed with diluted bleach. When I saw the bubbles on the hornwort I knew it wasn't pearling LOL

The tank now has 3 small DPs in it - I don't think they can go 3 -5 days w/out food for a blackout, but I hate to use Maracyn I. But if it were you, what would you do ???

I just CANNOT BELIEVE THIS !!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[JDogg]

can i get a few tank stats first?

how much light are you running?

co2?

What, if anything are you dosing?

Test results...
PH?
Ammonia?
Nitrite?
Nitrate?
PO4?
KH?
GH?

depending on your light level BGA could mean you are bottoming out on NO3...

 

[joannde]

pH 8.4 (lovely water). Ammonia and Nitites 0, Nitrates 10ppm (ish). 2 13 Watt CF bulbs (the spiral type - still looking for the curved type).
Haven't tested PO4 lately but last test was 3.5 (ridiculous - LOVELY water)
GH 14, KH 9 (did I say LOVELY water)

My poor DPs .... how am I going to treat the tank w/out killing them !!!

 

[fish_4_all]

Take out the wisteria would be my first move. I took mine out and the BBA is almost gone now. I think it eats too much of whatever it wants and causes shortages which causes BBA. I dose EI and did when the Wisteria was in there, even higher than I thought was needed. I then removed it and went to some slower growing plants and it has been eaten off by my swordtails. Now I can dose EI to normal amounts and have no new BBA growth.

You might even need to go with all different plants that don't grow so fast. I know others will say different, but it has worked for me.

 

[JDogg]

pH 8.4 (lovely water). Ammonia and Nitites 0, Nitrates 10ppm (ish). 2 13 Watt CF bulbs (the spiral type - still looking for the curved type).
Haven't tested PO4 lately but last test was 3.5 (ridiculous - LOVELY water)
GH 14, KH 9 (did I say LOVELY water)

my KH and GH are higher

My poor DPs .... how am I going to treat the tank w/out killing them !!!

not sure you are to that point yet...

i am going to assume that at that light level you are not dosing, but you are probably not getting enough plant growth to out compete the algae either...

how comfortable do you feel your nitrate test is... is it possible that you are getting closer to 0 ppm?

Take out the wisteria would be my first move. I took mine out and the BBA is almost gone now. I think it eats too much of whatever it wants and causes shortages which causes BBA. I dose EI and did when the Wisteria was in there, even higher than I thought was needed. I then removed it and went to some slower growing plants and it has been eaten off by my swordtails. Now I can dose EI to normal amounts and have no new BBA growth.

You might even need to go with all different plants that don't grow so fast. I know others will say different, but it has worked for me.

actually at your light level that might do it, the wisteria may be using up too much NO3...

 

[7Enigma]

That's my thought as well, sounds like a nitrAte issue. BGA can fix its own nitrogen unlike plants which require a complexed nitrogen source (such as ammonia or nitrAte). This makes it a "great" indicator of fert deficiency. I would dose higher (20ppm would be a good target to aim for), though I keep mine even higher as I don't trust my test kit (AP liquid).

 

[joannde]

I've been dosing NO3 but I guess not enough. So .... if I get the NO3 higher will the BGA end up "in check" ? I'd love to hear that it will eventually give up and die but I seriously doubt I could ever be that lucky !

 

[JDogg]

I've been dosing NO3 but I guess not enough. So .... if I get the NO3 higher will the BGA end up "in check" ? I'd love to hear that it will eventually give up and die but I seriously doubt I could ever be that lucky !

i think that if you get the NO3 figured out your plants should out compete the algae for the resources and the BGA should give up the fight.

 

[fish_4_all]

Yah, I meant it for both BGA and BBA and even hair algae. The wisteria is just such a hog that keeping up with it almost impossible. It seemed the more I dosed the faster it grew and the more it ate.

Here is another thought, what type of gravel are you using? There is a chance that the gravel or substrate could be silica based and that you need to either replace it or let the "film" develope on the plants to prevent silicas from being released.

 

[7Enigma]

Yah, I meant it for both BGA and BBA and even hair algae. The wisteria is just such a hog that keeping up with it almost impossible. It seemed the more I dosed the faster it grew and the more it ate.

Here is another thought, what type of gravel are you using? There is a chance that the gravel or substrate could be silica based and that you need to either replace it or let the "film" develope on the plants to prevent silicas from being released.

I had to get rid of wisteria in my tank. It was very nice looking, but the maintainence was just too much for it to be worth it.

I don't understand the silica comment. I am not aware that BGA feeds off silicates. They generally "look" for lower flow areas that are nitrogen depleted. I would up the nitrAte dosing and increase the turbulence of the water as well. If you can get a PH or two and aim them directly at the problem spots that would be great.

 

[joannde]

If the wisteria were actuall growing I"d say that's the problem LOL - the hornwort however is another story - seems I'm doing some sort of trim every other day on that stuff LOL
btw, substrate is EcoComplete.
I'll try and keep the NO3 higher and see if that solves the problem. I'm gonna have to keep a log on this one to see exactly how much and how often I need to dose. I have a feeling that if I miss a dose my enemy (BGA) is going to come back again and again and again.
Thanks for all the advice - I hope I don't have to come back to this thread in the future. BGA is just the most awful stuff !

 

[JDogg]

good luck, i think i you figure out your NO3 dosing then you will be fine

 

[rkilling1]

FWIW, my NO3's without EI dosing was 10 PPM, before my weekly PWC, and I still dose an additional 30 PPM NO3 on top of that. So going to 20 PPM would be a good thing for you.

 

[fish_4_all]

Sorry, confused BGA with diatoms.

I agree that the NO3 dosing in appropriate amounts will stop it. If you miss a dose and you are dosing 20ppm every other day you shouldn't have a drop that would cause a BGA outbreak. 60ppm dosed a week with a max of 5ppm uptake every day would still leave you with more than 25ppm in your tank. I lost my calculator I made when my other computer died but there is a post that has it somewhere. I will find it so you can see the uptake and dosing levels once you get your dosing regiment established.

Maybe even a DIY root tab under the Wiesteria will keep it from stripping the nitrates out of the water column and help.

HERE is the link. If you input your dosing and usage, the sheet will calculate your levels. If you can get any kind of reliable test results, test once a week before you do your water change. This should eventually give you the approximate uptake of your tanks and how much you need to dose. Don't use the tests for the actual levels, just to calculate the uptake. The maximum you can have is calculated for you based on your uptake.

For example:
base reading is 10ppm, tap water has 5 ppm, food provides 5ppm, you dose 15ppm every other day, plants use 5ppm every day.

Max NO3 level would be 40ppm at the end of the week before water change.

 

[joannde]

whoa - cool. I can figure out a spreadsheet ! (my degree is in accounting - I LIVE on spreadsheets).
How do you know how much NO3 food provides ?

 

[fish_4_all]

I use 5ppm for both food and fish waste, it is really just in there to account for it. I really can't imagine it being much higher than 5ppm but could be up to 10ppm if you have a really heavy bioload. It is really just a guestimate but when I didn't dose anything, my nitrates were as high as 10ppm with very few plants. My tap has 5ppm in it so I figured 5 ppm from fish waste and food.

To get a copy that you can edit, simply save it, copy it to another worksheet and then you can edit the sheet if you want to. I am sure you knew this but I didn't so had to add it.

 

[joannde]

Thanks. My PWC is today so I'll start using it right after that. I'm determined to keep the BGA away !!

 

[joannde]

URGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ... I did the PWC today and found more BGA (it was growing on the diatoms on the glass !!!). I pulled a good deal of the hornwort. Some of it I discarded (after nuking), some of it I rinsed the heck out of before returning it after trimming. After the PWC I dosed KNO3 to get NO3 to 30ish.

Tonight I was looking at the tank - the puffers and I were smiling at each other ...

and then I saw it ... BGA - all over one of the hornworts. This stuff is going to be the END of me ! PLEASE tell me that I CAN win this battle without killing the DPs. Someone on the forum called BGA "Evil" something or another - boy oh boy was he right.