pH drop after water change

[becky412]

Hello, I tried searching for this but nothing would come up so posting this now.

I have a 55 gallon tank that just completed cycling. I did a 25% water change because the narites were between 20 and 40 ppm. I have been testing the water daily, before feeding in the morning using API testing kit. The pH before water change for 2 weeks averaged 7.6. The day of W\C it was 7.2, after w/c it dropped to 6.8, then 6.6 now between 6.0 & 6.4. I pulled a pH on my tap water and it is 6.0 -6.4 - I am on well water.

I have watched videos on this and I hear to add sodium bicarb or crushed coral (mixed reviews about that working). Since my tap water is normally low, and now that the tank has cycled, should I look at supplementing? If so, what can I put in my aquarium (or cannister) that will help up the pH. I have Angelfish on order and due next week so want to get this going right.

Thanks

 

[Aiken Drum]

Do you have any fish in the tank?

The 2 methods of increasing pH you mention will do what you want. However a stable pH is more important than attaining what you might perceive as being an ideal pH. Fish are adaptable to a wide range of pH levels, what they dont like is this parameter swinging about a lot.

Do you know your carbonate hardness (KH)? A low KH will mean your water has no capacity to absorb acid, and the natural processes that happen in an aquarium tend to acidify the water. With low KH and no capacity to absorb this acid your pH would crash and that wouldn't be good for fish. From that perspective, adding sodium bicarbonate into the water or crushed coral/ cuttlefish bone into the filter will add KH and help stabilise your pH which is more important than trying to raise it.

 

[becky412]

Do you have any fish in the tank?

The 2 methods of increasing pH you mention will do what you want. However a stable pH is more important than attaining what you might perceive as being an ideal pH. Fish are adaptable to a wide range of pH levels, what they dont like is this parameter swinging about a lot.

Do you know your carbonate hardness (KH)? A low KH will mean your water has no capacity to absorb acid, and the natural processes that happen in an aquarium tend to acidify the water. With low KH and no capacity to absorb this acid your pH would crash and that wouldn't be good for fish. From that perspective, adding sodium bicarbonate into the water or crushed coral/ cuttlefish bone into the filter will add KH and help stabilise your pH which is more important than trying to raise it.

Hello thanks for responding. Yes, I have had 7 feeder goldfish in the aquarium during the cycling. They are so small (4 one inch and 3-2 inch) they were not getting the tank cycled. Had a friend give me a filter cartridge from her established aquarium last week and that kick things into gear. I have watched the goldfish closely during cycling and they didn't show any type of stress.
Since the tank cycled and and things were looking good I ordered 2 1.5 inch bristelnose plecos and 2 Hillstream loach. those came today. So that is all the fish right now. Not a huge load on system.

As far as kH, I do not have the test kit for that - yet. I ordered the API kH/gH kit from Amazon and that should be here tomorrow. I have Advatec 9 in 1 strips that I also have used. They have the carbonate on it. I just did a test and attched a picture of the strip with reference and attached. Do not know how accurate it is though. The REAL answers about my tap water will be coming back probably in a month. Had just pulled well water sample to send off for testing.

So the only "pet" store I have near me is Petsmart. I know they have crushed coral in small bags. I could get a couple and put in the filter. I do not know if they have the cuttlefish bone. They close at 9 so if you think I should drive over the mountain (takes 20-5 minutes) and get some tonight, I will.

I have read somewhere, or watched on YouTube that the Nitrate is what kicks the crushed coral into action when/if needed. So many opinions out there.

Not sure why this is being so difficult. I had saltwater for several years (back in the 80s) successfully and I know I didn't test parameters except the salinity and my water was from public water, so of course chlorine was in it and I only put in the chlorine drops when I did water changes. I just do not understand how the carbonate can be so low when I know we have minerals in water since we get the buildup on shower heads and faucets.

Anyway, let me know if I need to take a drive tonight to start getting things straight.

Thanks

 

[Aiken Drum]

You can make this as simple or as complicated as you like. Stock lightly, change water regularly, add new fish gradually and you will likely keep fish happy and healthy without knowing about cycling and such. It will just happen.

Difference between the 80s and now is that knowledge has increased and the ability to test and take out the guesswork is now there. You now have the ability to know whats going on and reduce the risk to your fish.

Nitrate has nothing to do with your crushed coral disolving in your water. Except that nitrate will slightly increase the acidity of your water and it will therefore disolve a little quicker i guess. Not to any noticable degree though. If your water is acidic and low on disolved solids it will readily disolve. If its basic and high in disolved solids it wont so much.

Test strips arent known to be accurate, but yours does show low KH. Your goldfish showed no signs of stress, no reason to presume other fish would, but i presume you plan on more heavily stocking your tank than 7 small goldfish going forward and that would deplete KH quicker, and could cause your pH to crash and your cycle to fail. Regular water changes could be enough to replenish KH, no way of knowing really except trial and error. Crushed coral or cuttlefish bone will help with this if you dont want to take a risk. Cuttlefish bone should be in the bird section of the petstore.

Those test strips dont show ammonia. That is what will show if you are cycled. If you are seeing zero ammonia and nitrite you are cycled enough to support your goldfish. If you add more bioload your cycle will need time to catch up and support the higher bioload. If you add a small amount of bioload it could take a couple of days to catch up, if you add a lot of bioload it could take weeks.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Also there is a difference between general hardness (GH) which is what most people refer to as water hardness and carbonate hardness (KH) which gives the water ability to buffer acid. Although i would say you are low on both. It is only a test strip though. Limescale comes from calcium bicarbonate which deposits out as calcium carbonate. Calcium bicarbonate contributes to both GH and KH, and while your hardness is low, there is some.

 

[becky412]

Hello and thanks again. Found one of my Hillstream belly up on he bottom, haven't found the other one yet - probably behind a rock, will have to locate in a bit. I bought them after watching a video about them and thinking they were hardy. Either the one I know is off in fishy heaven didn't fare the overnight trip well, or the low pH or the nitrate level took them out. Was spry when I received them!! The yellow and calico plecos I have seen skooting around and seem very happy. I have 10 dime size angelfish due to come next week. Thinking of going out today and buying a small, inexpensive one at Petsmart and testing the survivability with it versus loosing all the ones on order. I am going to contact whom I am purchasing from and ask that they hold him order until I get this figured out.

As far as crushed coral - I went out last night and bought some as well as a bag to put it in to place in my cannister. Now the question is WHERE do I place in my cannister. I have 3 trays - 1 with sponges then one with rings then one with biohome - in that order bottom to top. There is a space between the bottom of cannister and bottom of sponge tray. Would that be an appropriate spot. Also, should I use crushed coral AND place a piece of cuttlebone inside the tank or just one or the other.

Thanks for the help.

 

[becky412]

I also plan on doing another water change today, probably like 1/3 this time and see if that simmers down the Nitrate some.

Also, once I decide to add the angels, the goldfish are coming out and finding a new home, so their bioload will be gone.

And my other Hillstream decided to wake up so I know he is alive.......for now.

 

[Aiken Drum]

You havent mentioned ammonia. Do you know that? Thats the most likely parameter to be off. Nitrate isnt an issue, that can get quite high. Many people keep fish healthy at much higher nitrate levels than your test indicates.

Crushed coral and cuttlefish bone are both calcium carbonate. You dont need both. As coral is in smaller pieces, ie more surface area it will more easily disolve. I would try and keep it towards the end of the waters route through your filter so it doesnt get caked in detritus which would prevent it from disolving. One of the benefits of bigger filters is more room to put media like this.

You have 10 angelfish to put in a 55g tank? Good luck with that. My expectation is when they pair up they will just kill each other looking for territory. My 55g tank couldn't cope with 4 angels.

 

[becky412]

Okay, ammonia & nitrites are zero/zero. Nitrates this am was more than 20 but less than 40 so 30?

Yeah, 10 angels is a little much, they were bought as a lot of 10, couldn't get 5 and it is more cost effective to it that way. I really do not want to breed them but you cannot sex dime size fish. As they grow, I will find home(s) for them to thin the herd if chaos ensues.

So, I did received my API GH/KH test kit. I do not like the instructions. In one part they say to count the drops until the blue turns to yellow (or the orange to green). Then in another section is says "bright yellow". Yellow and bright yellow are two different colors to me. I would much prefer a color card. Color is interpretative. So I did the tests and AS SOON AS it changed from one color to the next, I stopped. I have attached pics of results. Apparently from the parameters, I am definately low for "most tropicals" which includes angels.

If I were to add the crushed coral to my filter, how much would I add? If I do not need to add much (I have seen 1/4 cup to 1 cup suggestions) since it comes in such a large bag, I will try the cuttlebone and return the crushed coral.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Its not that putting more coral or cuttlebone in your system will disolve more in the water. Adding more will just last longer before you need to replace it. What you may find is that what you add in to begin with will get used up quite quickly because your water is acidic with very little disolved solids in it. After that it wont disolve so much because your pH will be higher with a higher level of disolved solid and it will then just need to restore what gets used up through your cycle and buffer new water you add when you do your water change. Its kind of a slow release process.

What will be happening with your KH value dropping from what you are seeing from your tap and in the tank is that KH is used up through the nitrogen cycle. About 7ppm KH is used up to cycle out 1ppm of ammonia. Roughly 18ppm per 1 degree of hardness. When your KH is gone 2 things happen. Your cycle cant function, so ammonia just builds up. Your water cant absorb acid so the natural processes that acidify the water will cause your pH to crash. This is what is known as old tank syndrome, where people get lazy and dont keep up with water changes and their KH drops over time. The otherside of this is ammonia isnt toxic at low pH, so you dont notice any adverse health issues. You then do a water change, add KH, raise the pH, the ammonia becomes toxic again and your fish start to die.