ph of 4.3... how? identical large tank reads 6.0

[fish wrangler]

Doesn't the high range pH kit mentioned above only test pH above ~7.4? I think the regular pH test from API is the one you want. It 6.0-7.6 is I remember correctly.

As far as I know there are no liquid or strip tests that can go lower than 6. I use a digital meter for that.

6.0-7.6 is the normal pH range for API liquid

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[Mebbid]

This isn't the original article I found, but tbh I don't have time to dig for it atm. I have to be up in 7 hours for a 12 hour day of clinicals However, this article is one I found in my previous travels and it details things quite nicely.

Nitrifying Bacteria Facts

One tank is very old... 10 plus years... large tank relatively new... as in 2 years.

I'm really believing it was the result of a KH issue and I'm hoping I have it under control with some serious water changes... Now I am thinking about the no beneficial bacteria addition to the discussion... One is do beneficial bacteria simply cease production at 6.0 OR do they continue to exist and simply don't produce? Meaning if I dumped in BB from a third party are they all dying or do they simply exist and don't multiply?

They will go dormant in that tank without performing the nitrification. The BB in our tanks can live for up to a month without starving, so I assume they would last around that long.

 

[mrvincent]

I'm sure he got a false reading.

 

[Mebbid]

I'm sure he got a false reading.

*shrug* possibly.

 

[mrvincent]

Bromotymol blue does almost all the PH ranges...

 

[JackBlasto]

This is my meter Oakton EcoTestr pH 2 Waterproof pH Tester, 0.0 to 14.0 pH Range https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004G8PWAU/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_K8Rzub1ECFXSA

There are some negative reviews by people that say it gives false readings even after calibration so it's possible. My liquid test kit which goes to 6 days it's 6 but ... Eh, being that's as low as it goes then that's what I'd expect. I'll look into that test kit that reads at 5.5 just out of curiosity. I'm not doubting anyone's advice on here and not saying my meter is working right. I don't know and I appreciate the feedback and will continue to look for alternative ways to test and keep up with more water changes


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[dalto]

That Oakton meter is hardly the worst one on the market. I think it is pretty decent for the price point it is in.

I use a higher end one but I needed on with a detachable probe so my options were more limited.

 

[trennamw]

Doesn't the high range pH kit mentioned above only test pH above ~7.4? I think the regular pH test from API is the one you want. It 6.0-7.6 is I remember correctly.

As far as I know there are no liquid or strip tests that can go lower than 6. I use a digital meter for that.

Wide range liquid pH tests, usually sold for hydroponics, measure from 3-10. It's what our LFS told me to use, and it's the one they use for all their fish including sensitive and wild caught species.

I wouldn't tend to repeat "my LFS told me" but The Wet Spot here in Portland seems to have quite a reputation and they've never given me weird or bad advice.

The test chart shows results in increments of 1 but it's easy to eyeball smaller increments. Way more easy to read than the API tests.

I'm sure digital is far better, but if you're going to do bottled ...


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[Autumnsky]

After I had a crash no matter what, I couldn't keep the pH level and for months battled with getting a measurable KH reading , pH below 6. KH about 0, not even one drop in the test kit.

I have continued trying to figure this stuff out. Not a Chemistry major, so learning what I can.

OP if you are looking at some KH additives, I have been using Kent Superbuffer dKH and Epsom salts for magnesium and also baking soda, and natural mineral salt and KH Carbonate Aquavitro for potassium.

I started using 1/4 tsp per gallon of Epsom salt
Using the 7 ml dose of Carbonate AquaVitro one inner cap for 25G (full dose is 49ml)
Kent SuperBuffer dKH recommended dose for tank size.

So far it seems better, more stable and will come up to 6.8 to 7.

Good luck to figure out the needed combination.

 

[trennamw]

After I had a crash no matter what, I couldn't keep the pH level and for months battled with getting a measurable KH reading , pH below 6. KH about 0, not even one drop in the test kit.

I have continued trying to figure this stuff out. Not a Chemistry major, so learning what I can.

OP if you are looking at some KH additives, I have been using Kent Superbuffer dKH and Epsom salts for magnesium and also baking soda, and natural mineral salt and KH Carbonate Aquavitro for potassium.

I started using 1/4 tsp per gallon of Epsom salt
Using the 7 ml dose of Carbonate AquaVitro one inner cap for 25G (full dose is 49ml)
Kent SuperBuffer dKH recommended dose for tank size.

So far it seems better, more stable and will come up to 6.8 to 7.

Good luck to figure out the needed combination.

I struggle with buffering too and was interested in alternatives so I looked up Kent's super buffer. From what I can see it has ingredients I've never seen recommended for freshwater, which concern me quite a bit (washing soda, and sodium tetraborate). I've seen really strong warnings against using washing soda in freshwater.

It is mostly baking soda do there's no reason to add more.

I know I recommend them ad nauseum, but have you considered trying Cichlid buffer? For the API type, The MSDS is much less concerning and the bottle has precise dosing. I haven't had a pH crash since I started using it and KH is very stable. A small amount adds 3 degrees KH and stabilizes my pH about 7.6-7.8.

Or just Epsom salt and baking soda, as that's the KH component of most non phosphate buffers anyway.

The Kent's product ingredients read like my homemade laundry detergent.


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[Autumnsky]

I struggle with buffering too and was interested in alternatives so I looked up Kent's super buffer. From what I can see it has ingredients I've never seen recommended for freshwater, which concern me quite a bit (washing soda, and sodium tetraborate). I've seen really strong warnings against using washing soda in freshwater.

It is mostly baking soda do there's no reason to add more.

I know I recommend them ad nauseum, but have you considered trying Cichlid buffer? For the API type, The MSDS is much less concerning and the bottle has precise dosing. I haven't had a pH crash since I started using it and KH is very stable. A small amount adds 3 degrees KH and stabilizes my pH about 7.6-7.8.

Or just Epsom salt and baking soda, as that's the KH component of most non phosphate buffers anyway.

The Kent's product ingredients read like my homemade laundry detergent.


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Interesting point about the ingredients. The Cichlid buffer sounds like a great option to stabilize the buffering OP.

 

[Caliban07]

What is your stock in the 29? Have you tested for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

How often did you change the water before you noticed this problem?

We really should be trying to find the root cause of the low ph and why the other tank isn't suffering.

Do you have plants in any of the tank? Do you inject co2 etc?

I wouldn't go adding a buffer just yet until you check all other parameters first.


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[JackBlasto]

Live plants in both tanks. Not too many plants in the small tank with the issues. Honestly I'm getting the ph slowly up by doing a lot of water changes since posting this. I have it up to 5.9 now and everyone is doing fine. KH is also reading between 1 and 2 (up from possibly zero when I noticed the problem) so I think I'm going the right way. Pretty sure it is old tank syndrome and is being resolved by daily water changes. I will continue to do daily water changes of 30% as thats whats getting the kh back and everything seems going the right way. Thanks

 

[mrvincent]

Potassium carbonate: KH + Ferts for plants.
Baking soda: KH + Salinity
Carbonate calcium: KH+GH,
Calcium hydroxide: GH (use low doses)
Magnesium chloride: GH (use traces doses)