pH problems and cyanobacteria

[ErinMcG]

Hi everyone,

I have a new 20 gallon long planted tank, with bog wood and a couple pieces of ceramics (a creamer jug and a tea cup). I started a fish-less cycle 8 weeks ago and when my tank cycled after 6 weeks, I put in 3 neons. They had the place to themselves for a week, and then I added two cories. The cories have been there for a couple of days. The plan is a small school of tetras, 5 cories, and an oto or two.

I do 20-30% water changes weekly. I test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates almost daily, using liquid tests. Today's numbers were 0, 0 and 10. *I haven't been testing pH as often because I tested it religiously for a month and it didn't change once. Steady at 7.0.

When I went to get the cories I asked my LFS to test my water, just to make sure everything was good and my tests were accurate. Well, she tested my pH too and it had gone up to 7.4. She suggested I try something called Neutral Regulator to bring down my pH. She also said that it would be good with my water changes because that should keep the pH down. But, it didn't last 3 days. The levels are back up again today. (7.4 again)

I also seem to have a bit of a Cyanobacteria bloom. I thought it was algae at first, but a bit of research showed me that was wrong. It was focused on my heater, so I wiped that down. I've been wiping my plants and I even had to remove a bunch of my java moss because it started getting into that.

Is it possible there's a connection between the two problems?

Any advice would be welcome!

Cheers,
Erin

 

[BBradbury]

Your 20 G

Hi everyone,

I have a new 20 gallon long planted tank, with bog wood and a couple pieces of ceramics (a creamer jug and a tea cup). I started a fish-less cycle 8 weeks ago and when my tank cycled after 6 weeks, I put in 3 neons. They had the place to themselves for a week, and then I added two cories. The cories have been there for a couple of days. The plan is a small school of tetras, 5 cories, and an oto or two.

I do 20-30% water changes weekly. I test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates almost daily, using liquid tests. Today's numbers were 0, 0 and 10. *I haven't been testing pH as often because I tested it religiously for a month and it didn't change once. Steady at 7.0.

When I went to get the cories I asked my LFS to test my water, just to make sure everything was good and my tests were accurate. Well, she tested my pH too and it had gone up to 7.4. She suggested I try something called Neutral Regulator to bring down my pH. She also said that it would be good with my water changes because that should keep the pH down. But, it didn't last 3 days. The levels are back up again today. (7.4 again)

I also seem to have a bit of a Cyanobacteria bloom. I thought it was algae at first, but a bit of research showed me that was wrong. It was focused on my heater, so I wiped that down. I've been wiping my plants and I even had to remove a bunch of my java moss because it started getting into that.

Is it possible there's a connection between the two problems?

Any advice would be welcome!

Cheers,
Erin

Hello Erin...

Here's my take on your tank:

You have a small tank, so you can't have too many fish. If you have 8-10 Tetras, which is best for a schooling fish plus the rest, then that's the most you should keep. Small, weekly water changes aren't enough to keep the tank clean. With the number of fish you have, you should be removing and replacing half the tank water every week with pure, treated tap water. Your filtration equipment should be strong, but you don't need to over filter. Something with a gph (gallons per hour) rating of 120 is sufficient.

If you change out half the water every week, the chemistry will remain steady and free of pollutants. The fish and plants will adapt to the water conditions and you don't need to worry about the pH or testing the tank water.

B

 

[librarygirl]

I think a 20 gal long tank is a good size, actually (maybe BBradbury misread). You could do the 10 Neons and 5 Corys certainly. You could add the Otos too but I'd wait a long while, they prefer to eat certain types of algae and otherwise it's hard to feed them supplemental foods as they don't always take to them. They are sensitive fish too and can be difficult to keep in new tanks. You could add more fish in addition to the Neons and Corys. Is there another type that interests you? You could do another school of small fish or maybe a centerpiece.

As for PH, what test did she use to test PH? If they're using strips I wouldn't trust it. If you have the API kit I'd trust that more. Test the tank with your kit and see if the results match. Even if the PH is slightly higher it isn't a huge jump so it shouldn't harm anything, adding chemicals to the tank to adjust PH can be a slippery slope and cause more harm than good.

Sometimes the water municipalities mess with things. My PH was always 7.2 but now it's changed to 7.8. Also you can test your PH right out of the tap and then leave a glass of water out for 24 hours and test PH again; sometimes your PH changes after the water gasses out. For example, out of my tap my PH is 8.4, after it settles it goes to 7.8 which is what my tank's PH is.

A 50% per week water change schedule is good maintenance practice. Hope this helps.

 

[BBradbury]

The 20 G Tank

Hello Library...

No, didn't misread. Just felt like the number of fish planned for a 20 G was a little high especially for the number of Corydoras. I keep large tanks of Corys and most get pretty large over the years and could stress a small tank, creating a real challenge to keep clean even for an experienced "water keeper".

I'm only a few years into the hobby and haven't taken on the challenge of a tank smaller than 30 gallons. Smaller tanks don't leave enough room for errors in tank management. 55 G tanks are my choice.

Anyway, I'll defer to you. You've had more experience with aquariums than I.

Above everything else, have fun!

B

 

[ErinMcG]

I think I may just stick with the cories and tetras for a while. I do have some diatoms in the tank, which is why I was thinking of an oto (it was suggested by my LFS). But, I would hate to have the fish clean the tank up and then die for lack of other food sources!

The trick now is to be patient about adding new fish. The 2 cories came home on Weds. I would like to wait until next Monday (so a week and a half) before I add any more. But, I want more! They are such a riot.

I checked the pH with my own liquid tests too and it is steady at 7.5 now. I never checked my tap water, so I will do that, just to see what it is at. Maybe that has changed. I have bog wood... Maybe I could swap a piece of bog wood for some driftwood. I had been thinking of cardinals rather than neons, but cardinals like more acidic water, or so I have read.

Any thoughts on the Cyanobacteria issue?

Cheers,
Erin

 

[BBradbury]

Your 20 G Tank

I think I may just stick with the cories and tetras for a while. I do have some diatoms in the tank, which is why I was thinking of an oto (it was suggested by my LFS). But, I would hate to have the fish clean the tank up and then die for lack of other food sources!

The trick now is to be patient about adding new fish. The 2 cories came home on Weds. I would like to wait until next Monday (so a week and a half) before I add any more. But, I want more! They are such a riot.

I checked the pH with my own liquid tests too and it is steady at 7.5 now. I never checked my tap water, so I will do that, just to see what it is at. Maybe that has changed. I have bog wood... Maybe I could swap a piece of bog wood for some driftwood. I had been thinking of cardinals rather than neons, but cardinals like more acidic water, or so I have read.

Any thoughts on the Cyanobacteria issue?

Cheers,
Erin

Hello again Erin...

There is plenty of nutritional food for your fish at the pet store. Most of the brand name flakes, frozen and freeze dried foods, plus the different wafers and pellets will keep all your fish well fed and healthy.

Unless your plan is to breed rare fish species, you don't need to be concerned with pH, hardness or any of these other issues. They really aren't important for keeping a successful aquarium. Simply treat your tap water for ammonia, chlorine and chloramines. The fish will adapt to the water chemistry.

The best thing for stable water conditions is large, weekly water changes of at least half the tank volume. By flushing a lot of pure, treated water through your tank every week, there's no time for pollutants to build up and hurt your fish. This keeps the water chemistry stable and that's the most important thing for your fish and plants too.

Just a couple of thoughts.

B

 

[librarygirl]

Hello Library...

No, didn't misread. Just felt like the number of fish planned for a 20 G was a little high especially for the number of Corydoras. I keep large tanks of Corys and most get pretty large over the years and could stress a small tank, creating a real challenge to keep clean even for an experienced "water keeper".

I'm only a few years into the hobby and haven't taken on the challenge of a tank smaller than 30 gallons. Smaller tanks don't leave enough room for errors in tank management. 55 G tanks are my choice.

Anyway, I'll defer to you. You've had more experience with aquariums than I.

Above everything else, have fun!

B

Actually you could be right, depending on the type of Cory (I didn't think to ask). Dwarf/pygmy cories should be fine, larger ones like Sterbai are probably best in a larger tank.

 

[ErinMcG]

Thanks for the advice! They are little pepper cories, so they should stay fairly small. I do weekly water changes, changing 30% of my water for fresh tap water, treated to remove chlorine, etc. I also do water tests regularly. So far, so good.

I won't worry about the pH. I do drip acclimation anyway, so any new fish should be able to adjust.

It's just the Cyanobacteria that worries me. It looks like algae, but it's not. And it keeps trying to coat my plants. Part of my weekly water change now involves wiping the stuff off the plants. It's not massive amounts of it, or anything, but there's enough to bug me. If I leave it, it will get worse, but it adds a lot of work to my tank maintenance and it means I have to out my hands in the tank, which I worry about doing...

 

[ErinMcG]

Well ****... I just googled my pepper cories. Max of 3 inches, which is not what the person at my LFS said. I told her I wanted a dwarf cory of some sort and she suggested these guys. Your replies made me look it up though and I can see that she rather under estimated their size. So, I think we will stick to 3 instead of 5. Otherwise, it will become a cory tank instead of a community! And no oto... Sigh.

 

[HeatherW]

well, don't know much about your bacteria problem, but here is what I think. if this is really what you have then I would turn off your aquarium lights for a few days, and do 50%PWCs for the next several days making sure you are cleaning your gravel well. from what I have read this bacteria is caused from too much waste in your water - either fish waste or overfeeding, etc. and they love sunlight! so change your water.

what is your Nitrate level in your tank?

 

[ErinMcG]

Nitrates are steady at 10 - the shade of pink varies ever so slightly from day to day, but my husband and I have both been checking against the chart and it's still closest to 10.

I have a hard time believing that it's over feeding or excess waste. There are 5 small fish in the 20 gallon tank, so far. the three neons have been there for two weeks and the cories less than a week. I have been feeding very lightly (I didn't feed any of them on the days when I added them, and I was away this weekend, so they all fasted for 48 hours too). I've been very conscious about food.

The cyanobacteria appeared when I got the neons - could they have brought it with them, I wonder? I did accidentally get their water into my tank (missed the part about not adding LFS water to my tank and just followed the instructions I got int he shop). That said, their water looked fine in the shop. So does mine, for that matter. It just keeps turning up on my plants. Getting tempted to rip out my plants and try some new ones...

Yesterday's tests (just for the hell of it)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
pH 7.5

 

[HeatherW]

so can you post a pic? are you sure you have diagnosed it correctly? I think if it is just bacteria the water changes should clear it up. if it is something else, then I am not sure. is it blue-green in color?

 

[BBradbury]

Your 20 G Tank

Nitrates are steady at 10 - the shade of pink varies ever so slightly from day to day, but my husband and I have both been checking against the chart and it's still closest to 10.

I have a hard time believing that it's over feeding or excess waste. There are 5 small fish in the 20 gallon tank, so far. the three neons have been there for two weeks and the cories less than a week. I have been feeding very lightly (I didn't feed any of them on the days when I added them, and I was away this weekend, so they all fasted for 48 hours too). I've been very conscious about food.

The cyanobacteria appeared when I got the neons - could they have brought it with them, I wonder? I did accidentally get their water into my tank (missed the part about not adding LFS water to my tank and just followed the instructions I got int he shop). That said, their water looked fine in the shop. So does mine, for that matter. It just keeps turning up on my plants. Getting tempted to rip out my plants and try some new ones...

Yesterday's tests (just for the hell of it)
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
pH 7.5

Hello Erin...

Nitrates at low levels aren't toxic, so I wouldn't be concerned with them. It's time to start enjoying your tank and not worry about water chemistry. Start a good water changing routine by removing and replacing half the tank water every week. If you do this, there won't be time for pollutants to build up in tank before the next large water change.

Look into getting some aquatic plants into the tank. They're natural water filters and make for a healthy tank. Check the lighting you have and research the plants that grow in that light.

Next time you do a water change, plant some plants. With the water level low, planting should be easy.

Next, research the fish that will get along with those you have. A 20 G can easily support 15 to 20 small fish.

The "water keeping" hobby is supposed to be fun, not a high school chemistry lesson. That stuff is no fun.

Just one humble opinion from an "old school" water keeper.

B

 

[Bottomfeeder88]

Cyano colonies are tough to eradicate. Lack of oxygen, water movement, organic decomposition, and an uncycled tank are all triggers to it. Start by looking there and correct if need be. If you lack the patience there are meds and the "blackout" method to treat it. Best bet is to find the root cause.

 

[ErinMcG]

I have a number of plants, mainly java fern and java moss. Also some wee sword ferns and something else I forget the name of. My lights are T5 HOs, and I have taken to only turning them on in the evening to keep the light low for the moment. I have decided not to worry about the pH.

Sadly, there is something wrong with my chemistry. One of my cories died and the remaining four fish (a Cory and three neons) are all red about the gills. Not much in the ammonia or nitrites though. I tested and had my LFS test too. They are as puzzled as I am. I have been discussing it with some folks on the sick fish thread and we are considering the possibility of chlorine problems because I switched to a new dechlorinator to try to fix the pH. It was one that was supposed to regulate pH too. I am going back to my usual stuff instead and we will see if that helps.

Weekly water changes and lots of patience is what I am aiming for now. One change I was thinking of, on recommendation from my LFS and possibly in accordance to one suggestion in this thread, is to try to up my oxygen levels by adding an air stone. The LFS suggested it my help with water quality, though they can't find anything wrong wi my water. I hope my plants will be ok with it!

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I will work on the patience side of things and try to get back to enjoying this.