Phosphate levels and methods of Control

[jarrod0987]

I recently bought a Hanna LR Phosphate Checker (Model HI 713)
I love it's ease of use and range. It works in Fresh or Salt water.

I use it in my planted tank to set my level of Phosphate to 0.5 ppm.

I also use it in all my other tanks to make sure my GFO is keeping my phosphate below 0.1 ppm. When it is not I change it out.

Some of you may be wondering why I should even care about phosphate in a tank with no plants. The reason is because I have found it to be a significant factor in many types of algae. Some people will deny this. It has not been my experience at all.

In the Case of Blue Green Algae I found different light intensity or bulbs did little. Scrubbing out the Phosphate with Poly Filter Pad (Or GFO) finally solved it for me.

In the case of Green Spot Algae it is believed that too little phosphate will cause this algae to come out. I tried adding more and more but it would not go away. I finally got to to go away when I reduced the light. I only use 0.5 ppm Phosphate in that planted tank now. Some people like much more. It is nice to know what it actually is.

I found the API kit does not read very well in this range it should have been darker then it was. It indicates undetectable but it is a hard color to read on that kit.

The Easy Life kit was about right but still very hard to tell the shades of green.

The Hanna Phosphorus ULR test (Model 711 I believe) is like this meter but the range is wrong for planted tanks and the conversion to phosphate is annoying.


Some people ask me "Why wouldn't you just do a water change. It's cheap and easy"

The answer is the same as it has always been except now I have a better number to give them. My tap water tests 1.00 ppm of Phosphate. I couldn't make that up. I never would have believed it myself. There will be daily variance I am sure. So no matter how much water I change I can never get below that amount. It is 10 times above my target in a Fresh Water Fish Only Tank so I must use other means. Poly Filter Pad works but it goes fast and is expensive. GFO has a higher start up cost because of the reactor and pump but some people just put it in a bag and throw it in there canister filter with mixed results. In the end, it is the way I prefer in Fresh Water Fish Only.

 

[Caliban07]

I recently bought a Hanna LR Phosphate Checker (Model HI 713)

I love it's ease of use and range. It works in Fresh or Salt water.



I use it in my planted tank to set my level of Phosphate to 0.5 ppm.



I also use it in all my other tanks to make sure my GFO is keeping my phosphate below 0.1 ppm. When it is not I change it out.



Some of you may be wondering why I should even care about phosphate in a tank with no plants. The reason is because I have found it to be a significant factor in many types of algae. Some people will deny this. It has not been my experience at all.



In the Case of Blue Green Algae I found different light intensity or bulbs did little. Scrubbing out the Phosphate with Poly Filter Pad (Or GFO) finally solved it for me.



In the case of Green Spot Algae it is believed that too little phosphate will cause this algae to come out. I tried adding more and more but it would not go away. I finally got to to go away when I reduced the light. I only use 0.5 ppm Phosphate in that planted tank now. Some people like much more. It is nice to know what it actually is.



I found the API kit does not read very well in this range it should have been darker then it was. It indicates undetectable but it is a hard color to read on that kit.



The Easy Life kit was about right but still very hard to tell the shades of green.



The Hanna Phosphorus ULR test (Model 711 I believe) is like this meter but the range is wrong for planted tanks and the conversion to phosphate is annoying.





Some people ask me "Why wouldn't you just do a water change. It's cheap and easy"



The answer is the same as it has always been except now I have a better number to give them. My tap water tests 1.00 ppm of Phosphate. I couldn't make that up. I never would have believed it myself. There will be daily variance I am sure. So no matter how much water I change I can never get below that amount. It is 10 times above my target in a Fresh Water Fish Only Tank so I must use other means. Poly Filter Pad works but it goes fast and is expensive. GFO has a higher start up cost because of the reactor and pump but some people just put it in a bag and throw it in there canister filter with mixed results. In the end, it is the way I prefer in Fresh Water Fish Only.

The problem i have with this is that there have been many other cases (especially from planted tank gurus) that low phosphate does contribute towards GSA and that by adding more it completely disappeared. I sounds to me that GSA is a combination of both low phosphate and high light. In my planted tank I increased light and started to add liquid carbon. Growth finally took off however, because light and carbon were no longer the limiting factor the plants required more nutrients. I began to become inundated with GSA on every leaf of every plant. I took a measurement with the ever sporadic and not wholly reliable liquid test kit and found both nitrate and phosphate to be 0ppm. I began adding EI and now see that newer leaves are not overtaken with GSA.

Here in an interesting read from and expert on UKAPS.

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ei-dosing-and-phosphate-level.22086/


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[jarrod0987]

The problem i have with this is that there have been many other cases (especially from planted tank gurus) that low phosphate does contribute towards GSA and that by adding more it completely disappeared. I sounds to me that GSA is a combination of both low phosphate and high light.

I agree there are to many cases to be ignored in the adding more PO4 got rid of it Category. However, I cannot ignore my own experience or the experience of others who said they could not get rid of it by adding more either.

I had an article posted by someone with a similar experience but of course I cannot find it now

At any rate I agree with you that a relationship (Ratio) between light and phosphate seems to be what is happening here. More research is needed.

I don't dispute the results so many have stated. Just that it does not work for me. I tried as high as 2 ppm and other algae just started coming (Green Hair and Thread) but GSA never went away so I gave up on that approach.

 

[Stacey W.]

Hey stranger! My phosphates according to the API kit reads 0.5ppm and got my nitrates down to 5ppm. Removed leaves from affected plants (green hair), reduced ferts to once per week, added anacharis (using as a nutrient sucker), and reduced lights to 6 hours per day. Still have hair algae just on the wisteria but not on the new growth near the bottom of the stems of the wisteria. Could add excel but afraid to kill the anacharis and jungle val.

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[Caliban07]

I agree there are to many cases to be ignored in the adding more PO4 got rid of it Category. However, I cannot ignore my own experience or the experience of others who said they could not get rid of it by adding more either.

I had an article posted by someone with a similar experience but of course I cannot find it now

At any rate I agree with you that a relationship (Ratio) between light and phosphate seems to be what is happening here. More research is needed.

I don't dispute the results so many have stated. Just that it does not work for me. I tried as high as 2 ppm and other algae just started coming (Green Hair and Thread) but GSA never went away so I gave up on that approach.

Please understand that I am not discounting your experience. it becomes more difficult to know what the actual cause of things are when more and more data/experiences are thrown in to the mix.

My feeling towards the counter arguments are that the experience is seen from many people who dose EI and very high phosphate levels with no algae provided all other elements are non limiting.

The other argument posed in this thread is that the test kits reading can read one thing on one test and read something completely different 2 mins later.

If you read the whole thread and the thread linked in it, there is some really good information that goes right by the side of my trail of thought and is why I tend to sway in that direction personally.


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[jarrod0987]

Hey stranger! My phosphates according to the API kit reads 0.5ppm and got my nitrates down to 5ppm. Removed leaves from affected plants (green hair), reduced ferts to once per week, added anacharis (using as a nutrient sucker), and reduced lights to 6 hours per day. Still have hair algae just on the wisteria but not on the new growth near the bottom of the stems of the wisteria. Could add excel but afraid to kill the anacharis and jungle val.

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I did some tests with API Phosphate test in fresh water and it reads lower then what the Hanna Checker does. Maybe try a little less phosphate on the API kit. When mine is just undetectable my that kit it tests about 0.34 ppm on my Hanna Low Range Phosphate Checker (Model HI 713). Also...some green hair seems to be parasitic (The long single thread ones) and only attack plants that are doing poorly. They go away after you figure out why that plant is not doing well.

Hope that helps.

 

[jarrod0987]

Please understand that I am not discounting your experience.

I know brother

Those EI people sure do love there PO4 Injecting CO2 seems to really change things. I never have done that yet.

 

[Mebbid]

I know brother

Those EI people sure do love there PO4 Injecting CO2 seems to really change things. I never have done that yet.

Well, step on over to the dark side with us and give it a try

I've never personally had a problem with cyanobacteria in any of my fresh water tanks. TBH I completely ignore phosphates in all my fresh tanks including my oscar tank. Cyano has never reared its ugly head.

 

[Fresh2o]

I used to have issues with GSA with phosphate levels around 1-2 ppm. I bumped it up to 5-10 ppm and the GSA disappeared. Only other algae issue was with BBA but peroxide/Glutaraldehyde spot treatments and increased water changes have remedied that. Tank is heavily planted, CO2 injected, daily PPS-Pro ferts under medium lighting.
I just doubled my lighting so all bets might be off in the next few weeks. Anyhow, increased phosphate has not been an issue algae wise in my tank.


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[Caliban07]

I used to have issues with GSA with phosphate levels around 1-2 ppm. I bumped it up to 5-10 ppm and the GSA disappeared. Only other algae issue was with BBA but peroxide/Glutaraldehyde spot treatments and increased water changes have remedied that. Tank is heavily planted, CO2 injected, daily PPS-Pro ferts under medium lighting.
I just doubled my lighting so all bets might be off in the next few weeks. Anyhow, increased phosphate has not been an issue algae wise in my tank.


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When you say disappeared do you mean it died off leaves or that new leaves were healthy and you hand removed the existing GSA and once the glass was cleaned it didn't come back or did it actually die away?


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[Fresh2o]

When you say disappeared do you mean it died off leaves or that new leaves were healthy and you hand removed the existing GSA and once the glass was cleaned it didn't come back or did it actually die away?


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I actually had to go through my build to answer this. I was battling BBA and staghorn for about a month while running two Finnex fixtures at the same time. It was a mess. Anyhow, GSA did not just "disappear" as previously stated; it persisted on existing leaves but was not present on new leaves. I was cleaning the front glass 1-2 times a week. That turned into 1-2 times a month to eventually putting the magnet cleaners away.


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[Caliban07]

I actually had to go through my build to answer this. I was battling BBA and staghorn for about a month while running two Finnex fixtures at the same time. It was a mess. Anyhow, GSA did not just "disappear" as previously stated; it persisted on existing leaves but was not present on new leaves. I was cleaning the front glass 1-2 times a week. That turned into 1-2 times a month to eventually putting the magnet cleaners away.


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Thanks for the clarification.


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[jarrod0987]

I was doing this thing to see if adding phosphate was helping so I would clean the glass then wait to see how many days it took for it to come back to about the same level. It was 8 days every time. Once I lowered it down to 0.5 It did not come back however, I also turned the light down at the same time because I figured out my par was too much also. So it stayed gone. Then I decided to rule out the light so I turned it back up. It came back in about 6-8 days. So the light seems to be an issue too. I know setting the light determines how much P the plants needs (and everything else it needs too). Going to keep playing with it all until I figure out the right light/P levels to keep the GSA away but also none of the hair algae that starts coming if I let my P get above 0.8 or so. It is probably a problem with C deficiency when I add too much light. I don't inject and my calculated CO2 ppm is only 2 LOL. I really wanted this non CO2 thing to work but it just causes nothing but problems. The Tom Barr non CO2 tank uses some kind of little balls that release CO2 but I forgot what they are called. I use Excel every day but it did not help the issue. I am already at max recommended dosage.

I did notice some of the leave have some but I can't scrub them I think it is still there but I prune a lot too.