Plague has hit my tank...now what

[iman74]

I have made a previous thread ask what happened, causes, and what should I do. But now all but one (last one I give 24hrs) I am now with a tank but no fish. I know I made some sudden changes, but I feel in my gut these changes should have not wiped out my entire stock. So with that said I believe one or more new fish brought a disease onto the tank, that wiped everyone out. Second time this happened to me, and it always seems to happy after I buy a algae eater to my tank from this particular pet store.
Now with all that, like I said this has happened before I even signed up here, and I did a complete and total clean up: gravel water, new filter inserts, everything. Then I posted here and was told I cleaned too much.

So I ask you this, now that I believe there is something in the water that is killing all my fish, what should I do before trying again? By the way, last time I checked Ph 7.0, Nitrite and Ammonia 0, and Nitrate 5. Temp 74 degrees.

Please advise with details. Thanks.

 

[brad3314]

when you do a pwc what do you use a bucket ?

i once cleaned my tank and i completely forgot about the bucket i was using was once used for washing the car which killed everything in it

 

[DepotFish]

Do you use ph buffers? Any sudden swing in ph can kill all the fish.

 

[iman74]

when you do a pwc what do you use a bucket ?
No I use that Python syphon that you hook directly up to your faucet. I flush it out, and refill it with that thing.

There was no sudden PH swing, but I appreciate the suggestions. I am really confident it was a disease for many reasons, which brings me to my original question, if I am right, how should I go about doing it? Meaning should I do anything to the tank other than the standard steps I have taken before, because I believe a one or more new fish brought on a disease. I feel this in my gut, and it's usually not wrong. I want to make sure everything is done properly before I begin to re-stock it again. Like should I add chemicals to kill anything in there, or just do PWC's for awhile, or what? Let me know.

 

[7Enigma]

If you are not making simple mistakes such as adding in the water with the python and not adding a dechlorinator, adding in water that is drastically different in temperature (74degrees will feel very cool to the touch), then it very well could be a contamination issue.

I would go about this on my own tank if I felt there was a contaminant:

-Trash everything inexpensive or that could cause the contaminant to stick around. Things like substrates and cheap decorations that can absorb chemicals (and driftwood) would be first on the list. Driftwood can be expensive so you can try to treat that separately, but I would definately reduce your variables by NOT using it right away.

-Everything else from the tank itself to the filter/heater/etc. I would soak in a 5% bleach solution for at least an hour.

-After that I would heavily wash everything and set it out to dry. Then I'd wash again, and put everthing back together.

-Then I would fill up the tank and make sure everything is fine and operating normally

-Then I would fishless cycle



My concern, however, is that it could just be something simple, such as improperly performing a test, or using a bad kit. Your nitrAte numbers don't make sense for someone having lost a lot of fish recently. I would expect if fully cycled to have no ammonia or nitrIte, but pretty high nitrAtes (unless lots of plants), as if any dead fish sat long in the tank it was probably partially eaten/decomposed...

 

[iman74]

Thanks for the reply but now I am getting mixed advice (in comparison to a different thread); granted there is no one-way to do everything. Here is the thing, this happened before so I went to the extreme. Everything was removed from tank, and I mean everything: bought new gravel, bleached ALL toys, and rinsed well, threw out all filter inserts, cleaned filter, cleaned heater and thermometer, and then put it all together. The advice I was getting was I did too much cleaning which is what I take is what you are suggesting. So as a result I had to re-cycle the tank, and that took about 6 weeks. I was told my focus was to get the tank so PH was steady (usually at 7.0), Ammonia and Nitrite at 0, and so that Nitrates start rising and keep them below 20 w/PWC's.


So that is what I was told and followed. Life was great for a few months, and then I added some new fish and disaster hit (hence where I am now). Cause, is nothing but theories for all tests show everything to be fine. If the test kit is bad, I don't see how I could detect consistently when PH moves from 7.0 and up, and back to 7.0 after PWC's, and also how I finally saw the day where Nitrates raised past 0. But not saying it's bad either. So in short I am not sure.

If you are not making simple mistakes such as adding in the water with the python and not adding a dechlorinator, adding in water that is drastically different in temperature (74degrees will feel very cool to the touch), then it very well could be a contamination issue.

I would go about this on my own tank if I felt there was a contaminant:

-Trash everything inexpensive or that could cause the contaminant to stick around. Things like substrates and cheap decorations that can absorb chemicals (and driftwood) would be first on the list. Driftwood can be expensive so you can try to treat that separately, but I would definately reduce your variables by NOT using it right away.

-Everything else from the tank itself to the filter/heater/etc. I would soak in a 5% bleach solution for at least an hour.

-After that I would heavily wash everything and set it out to dry. Then I'd wash again, and put everthing back together.

-Then I would fill up the tank and make sure everything is fine and operating normally

-Then I would fishless cycle



My concern, however, is that it could just be something simple, such as improperly performing a test, or using a bad kit. Your nitrAte numbers don't make sense for someone having lost a lot of fish recently. I would expect if fully cycled to have no ammonia or nitrIte, but pretty high nitrAtes (unless lots of plants), as if any dead fish sat long in the tank it was probably partially eaten/decomposed...

 

[TwoHobbies]

Iman it would seem from reading this that you know something went wrong when adding fish. Everyone is just throwing in their two cents.

Do you purchase all your fish from the same LFS? Have you asked if they had any problems?

 

[sudz]

Very good question! I got parisites in my tankn from a dwarf gourami i bought from big-als. I brought back one which was dying, and they were very alarmed, and quartined the tank with the fish in question and treated it for 3 weeks (and lost alot of fish) before selling them again.

Some stores don't take kindly to accusations that their fish have disease - its their reputation/bread and butter on the line.

 

[NeonJulie]

After about 1/2 hour, the other neon tetra was gasping for breath and dying. She looked up on the internet and it said something about it being oxygen deprivation so she did a PWC, but the neon tetra died. The cat fish and the everclear fish are still around, the catfish seem to be spirited and the everclear fish is hiding (she thinks it didn't eat).

This is the only indication you've symptoms you've mentioned about the fish (other than that they all died.)

Gasping for breath and dying... what kinds of "plagues" or illness might indicate these symptoms?

Were any of these fish used to cycle the tank? I know you mentioned it was a 6 week process, but did that include the houseguests?

I haven't read of too many posts indicating some illness jumped from fish to fish to wipe out most of a stock in such a short time... I think that's why some people are wondering about something in the environment (aka water/oxygen.)

Did the dead fish look like there was anything wrong with them? Spots or bloated, etc.

How did you acclimate your new fish, and did you quarantine them before adding them to the main tank with your existing fish?

 

[MSU Fan]

because I believe a one or more new fish brought on a disease. I feel this in my gut, and it's usually not wrong.

Diseases can be from many sources, such as bacteria or virii. It would seem that this is a likely scenario based on your observations and posts - have you tried to identify the particular disease that killed your fish? Were their any markings?

My question stems from this: if the disease were based off a bacteria, the likelihood is that the cleaning killed it off. Virus-based diseases are harder to kill. Based on what you have stated, there is no definitive actions that can be taken with the exception of completely restarting (again). Air dry the tank after multiple bleachings, all new decor and substrate - the whole 9 yards.

It sounds like you have done the best you can, and I hope that you get through this. I have had many problems in my tanks, and have learned much. Good Luck.

BTW, I am very interested in whether the lfs had any issues with illness...

 

[iman74]

Comment/Question:
Iman it would seem from reading this that you know something went wrong when adding fish. Everyone is just throwing in their two cents.

Response:
I am aware of that, but when you get mixed advice, and you are confused, not to mention I lost all my fish I tend to get a bit touchy. Sorry about that.

Comment/Question:
Do you purchase all your fish from the same LFS? Have you asked if they had any problems?

Response:
It's not a LFS, it's more of a Pet Store, and I question how much they know and put into their caring of the fish. BUT GOOD NEWS! With some asking, and some determination I found an aquarium that gave me facts unlike my local Pet Store. The second thing I asked/mentioned was about transporting (he is a fair distance away, and told him how my local pet store says they can only be in the bag for 30 minutes. He told me whoever said that is an idiot for there are all types of things you can put them in, and depending on which one depends on how much air they have. He goes, if the 30 minutes were true, how can I get my fish from Hong Kong to here? He has a point! But I like what I saw and heard from this guy today, and tomorrow will be going back with a water sample. Should I bring anything else?

Comment/Question:
Very good question! I got parisites in my tankn from a dwarf gourami i bought from big-als. I brought back one which was dying, and they were very alarmed, and quartined the tank with the fish in question and treated it for 3 weeks (and lost alot of fish) before selling them again.

Some stores don't take kindly to accusations that their fish have disease - its their reputation/bread and butter on the line.

Response:
These don't really show any care. They go, well it might be your water. I am not going to this place anymore, unless I need something quick like food.

Comment/Question:
"iman74 wrote:
After about 1/2 hour, the other neon tetra was gasping for breath and dying. She looked up on the internet and it said something about it being oxygen deprivation so she did a PWC, but the neon tetra died. The cat fish and the everclear fish are still around, the catfish seem to be spirited and the everclear fish is hiding (she thinks it didn't eat). "

This is the only indication you've symptoms you've mentioned about the fish (other than that they all died.)

Response:
UR correct because they were happy campers in the morning. There were zero signs of anything wrong. Then I get home, and 5 are dead. It was like night and day, black or white, or however else you want to look at it.

Comment/Question:
Gasping for breath and dying... what kinds of "plagues" or illness might indicate these symptoms?

Were any of these fish used to cycle the tank? I know you mentioned it was a 6 week process, but did that include the houseguests?

Response:
During the cycle process there were 4 fish, and they all made it. Then some time after the orange one died. Then the rest were fine, and then you jump ahead and they are around when I added these new fish, and this happened. Not to mention all the other stuff that happened during this time I mentioned before.

Comment/Question:
Did the dead fish look like there was anything wrong with them? Spots or bloated, etc.

Response:
Last night I notice on the remainig cat fish weird red spots, and one looked like he had a huge red belly spot underneath him.

Comment/Question:
How did you acclimate your new fish, and did you quarantine them before adding them to the main tank with your existing fish?

Response:
No. There was no reason to, and there was I wouldn't even buy more fish. I did my standard steps. Leave the bag floating ontop of the water for 10 minutes to adjust to the temperature, then power the water through the net over a bucket, and as soon as the fish enters the net my wife puts the fish in the tank. For the most part this works.

Comment/Question:
iman74 wrote:
because I believe a one or more new fish brought on a disease. I feel this in my gut, and it's usually not wrong.


Diseases can be from many sources, such as bacteria or virii. It would seem that this is a likely scenario based on your observations and posts - have you tried to identify the particular disease that killed your fish? Were their any markings?

Response:
We tried, and there were some that sounded like it, but nothing definite.

Comment/Question:
It sounds like you have done the best you can, and I hope that you get through this. I have had many problems in my tanks, and have learned much. Good Luck.

BTW, I am very interested in whether the lfs had any issues with illness...

Response:
Thanks for the kinds words, and as far as them having problems. I have seen my share of dead fish floating in their tanks many times.

 

[NeonJulie]

Comment/Question:
Did the dead fish look like there was anything wrong with them? Spots or bloated, etc.

Response:
Last night I notice on the remainig cat fish weird red spots, and one looked like he had a huge red belly spot underneath him.

Comment/Question:
How did you acclimate your new fish, and did you quarantine them before adding them to the main tank with your existing fish?

Response:
No. There was no reason to, and there was I wouldn't even buy more fish. I did my standard steps. Leave the bag floating ontop of the water for 10 minutes to adjust to the temperature, then power the water through the net over a bucket, and as soon as the fish enters the net my wife puts the fish in the tank. For the most part this works.

Good answers... I have one more question, and that's to ask if you can reiterate exactly how long after the new fish went in, that you saw problems?

 

[TwoHobbies]

I'll respond without asking any more questions. It sounds like your well on your way. I'm with you....... give the new guy at the new place a try. "Dead fish in their tanks lots of times" .........!!!!!

 

[iman74]

About a week, maybe more.

Comment/Question:
Did the dead fish look like there was anything wrong with them? Spots or bloated, etc.

Response:
Last night I notice on the remainig cat fish weird red spots, and one looked like he had a huge red belly spot underneath him.

Comment/Question:
How did you acclimate your new fish, and did you quarantine them before adding them to the main tank with your existing fish?

Response:
No. There was no reason to, and there was I wouldn't even buy more fish. I did my standard steps. Leave the bag floating ontop of the water for 10 minutes to adjust to the temperature, then power the water through the net over a bucket, and as soon as the fish enters the net my wife puts the fish in the tank. For the most part this works.

Good answers... I have one more question, and that's to ask if you can reiterate exactly how long after the new fish went in, that you saw problems?

 

[fynnie]

Just my two cents, But its something that came up for me this morning. Is it a heavily planted tank? And are you running an airstone? Because it looks like I just killed off 5 Danios with Oxygen poisioning. I didnt know not to run the airstone during the day. But the kill off was massive and fast, their gills and vents were really red and they bloated. It was awful. Im sorry you lost so many fishy friends.

 

[fynnie]

Oh, And for the record, I completely tore down the tank the Danios got sick in and bleached, cleaned, sweated and worried. Probably all for nought but thats where any one would start.

 

[7Enigma]

fynnie,

There is no such thing as oxygen poisoning in our tanks. As oxygen reaches its capacity in the water it bubbles out into the atmosphere (room). That's what the term pearling means.

You can kill fish with too little oxygen, or too much CO2. If you injecting CO2 or had a crazy DIY going you most definitely can kill off your tank.

 

[fynnie]

Oh Man the LSF advice strikes again! OK lesson learned.Thanks for letting me learn.

 

[7Enigma]

No problem. It's all about learning, and making sure what you learn is in fact accurate!

 

[ksfishguy]

Where are you with the setup again? Are you starting over and beginning the nitrogen cycle? Don't give up no matter how much frustration you are feeling. I find more times than not that you will never truely know the cause, you can only "guestimate" and take precautions for the next try.

What size tank(s) do you have? Is you tap water hard or soft?

Good luck and keep trying!!!