wademan
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
You were both right on. The same idea really. Just wanted to be sure if I got that set up for one tank I could easily (not cheaply) modify it in the future to accommodate other tanks. Thanks for the answers!
Pressurized CO2 questions!
- Thread starter An t-iasg
- Start date
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marcus russo
Aquarium Advice Freak
Yes it is easy to set up multiples with most manifolds.
We have 6 running of a 6 way manifold the silver on on the site.
Only bad thing about using a manifold system is it is hard to get a perfect regulation on all tanks!!
Marc
www.water-testers.com
We have 6 running of a 6 way manifold the silver on on the site.
Only bad thing about using a manifold system is it is hard to get a perfect regulation on all tanks!!
Marc
www.water-testers.com
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
Thanks so much for this post. The combo deal you linked looks perfect. I'm about THIS close to going pressurized now on my 20gallon. I've had great DIY results, but the temp fluctuations this time of year and hassles of making 2L bottles every week (especially mixing the yeast near my baby's bottles/formula/etc.) have made me dread the weekly ritual. I'm also starting to notice the prolonged cost of running 4L of DIY (~2cups of sugar per week, 1/2 package of yeast), and I figure I can break even after a couple years with a lot less headache and much less work. Now you couldn't have told me 4 months ago I'd be going pressurized EVER (unless I got a v. large tank), but so it goes....
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
OP
OP
An t-iasg
Aquarium Advice Addict
7Enigma...I hear you about dreading the yeast ritual...LOL...I'm still using the Hagen yeast system on my three 5-gallon tanks! I am using wine yeast now and it seems to produce longer than bread yeast for me. I go through a lot of sugar too - for the yeast and also in the summer for the hummingbird feeder! 
I never thought I would go pressurized either, and then I thought, why not do it? Once I found the combo that I linked, and the CO2 place was five minutes away, (I drove past this place before, not knowing what it was!) it seemed like there was no reason NOT to do it!
I really do like this package! The regulator and pH controller are top-notch, and come with a good set of directions. You get your little extras that as a first-time buyer, you may not think of -- like the tubing, calibration fluid, and bubble fluid.
Go for it and good luck!
I never thought I would go pressurized either, and then I thought, why not do it? Once I found the combo that I linked, and the CO2 place was five minutes away, (I drove past this place before, not knowing what it was!) it seemed like there was no reason NOT to do it!
I really do like this package! The regulator and pH controller are top-notch, and come with a good set of directions. You get your little extras that as a first-time buyer, you may not think of -- like the tubing, calibration fluid, and bubble fluid.
Go for it and good luck!
Just wait until you can adjust uptake rates by adjusting the C in the water colume. Now you can really play scientist. LOL. before you were limited by changing the amount of lighting and other Nutrients, now it's a whole new ball game. Hold on, let me up the CO2..(2 seconds later) Ok thats better. LOL...
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
rkilling1 said:
Oh we could do that before, it went something like this.....
Made up a new batch of yeast, oooooOOOOO look at all those bubbles. 2 hours later: Hmm I think I'll check the pH......6.2!!!.....that would be.....let me get out Chuck's calculator.....taking into account KH......150ppm CO2!??!?!
Then a day later (after the bottle cooled down to room temperature), oh that looks nice, 30-50ppm, this is easy.
Then 6 days later....hmm doesn't look as fast as before....lemme check the pH....7.0......awww heck.
That's what has annoyed me the most, the variable CO2 levels that make me always question my fert levels, when its probably not the ferts that are the problem. Then you start trying to figure out by the deficiency symptoms whats wrong...and in the end you ask yourself...is this really worth it?
Now my planted tank normally looks great and I get compliments, but I can always look around the tank and see the problem spots that drive me nuts. I'm not looking for an algae free tank (impossible with plants), I just don't want the staghorn/BBA/GSA that makes my beautiful anubias leaves look like @#$#.
OK, rant off.
Back on topic....
Looking at that site, it seems if I want to save CO2 by getting a solenoid I have to spend over $50 minimum. That seems like quite an investment for minimal savings.. Lets say it increases the life of the CO2 by 50% (on 1/2 the day), it would take ~3 fillings (5lb bottle I'm using for estimate) to break even. I've also heard of problems where it hangs open/closed.
What's everyone's thoughts on this? Who uses them, do people just keep the CO2 on all night. I currently use DIY with a PH and when the PH shuts off the dissolved CO2 drops to near ambient levels. So going pressurized I could do the same thing, it just comes down to is it worth it to get the solenoid or not?
Also wanted to mention that "CO2 tubing" is a ripoff IMO. I was speaking with a friend down the hall at work who is in charge of cell culture and they use normal silicone tubing for maintaining all of their incubators (CO2 level is kept at 5%). He said its a crock. Change out the tubing once every year or so and you'll be fine. Obviously try to eliminate the amount of tubing since even the "CO2 tubing" will lose a good bit of its CO2 overnight if you shut off the tank. But on the whole, I'd save my money and just purchase silicon.
rkilling1 said:
I've seen many posts about bubble counters connected vertically above a solenoid causing a failure of the solenoid because water leaked down in the valve. I think mineral oil might be a better idea than water and its pretty cheap. It should actually lube the solenoid if it leaks.
7Enigma, I'd order a solenoid from Rex Grigg. I ordered my complete setup from him and everything works great. A solenoid alone is only 30 bucks. A full rig with solenoid and low pressure regulator is only 160.
http://www.rexgrigg.com/sale.html
http://www.rexgrigg.com/sale.html
NoSvOrAx said:
I listed all the parts Rex uses here:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=86379&start=50
could have saved yourself some money if your are a DIYer.
As I look at my tank I wonder: Do you really even need a bubble counter?
We set the co2 based on ph right? And if you have a ph controller, all you really need to do is make sure your not pumping in co2 so fast that it air locks the filter. If your running it into the intake like I am, that is.
We set the co2 based on ph right? And if you have a ph controller, all you really need to do is make sure your not pumping in co2 so fast that it air locks the filter. If your running it into the intake like I am, that is.
NoSvOrAx said:
IF you have a pH controller then no, but if not, then yes. I do not like to sit there and proform a pH every 5 minutes while I am adjusting my CO2. It is just easier to watch the bubbles. I can gauge my CO2 by how many BPS I have going into my tank. 2 BPS = 30 PPM CO2.
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
What's the longevity of a pH controller (and probe)? I think I can justify the price IF the longterm costs are low/nil....
I'm still struggling with what I really need, and what I really want. Things like pH controllers, bubble counters, solenoid valves, etc. really fall into the want as opposed to the need. But they sound like they will allow for much more accurate measurements and easier use/lower longterm cost (especially the solenoid valve).
I'm still struggling with what I really need, and what I really want. Things like pH controllers, bubble counters, solenoid valves, etc. really fall into the want as opposed to the need. But they sound like they will allow for much more accurate measurements and easier use/lower longterm cost (especially the solenoid valve).
dapellegrini
Aquarium Advice FINatic
FWIW, I have both a bubble counter and a pH probe / solenoid controller. My BPS is around 2-3 and it is frequently OFF, which tells me that if I did not have the controller in place, I would be injecting way too much CO2... I have played around with the BPS rate to see if I could achieve a steady ON setting for my CO2, with no luck.
BPS injection needs would probably also change a lot between setup, with different tank sizes, uptake rates, lighting, dosing, KH, etc... IMO it is soooo much easier with the solenoid and pH meter. That said, I don't know how often you are supposed to change out the probe, but I have a friend at work who has been running his in SW for 2 years with no issues... The controller should last a long time (i.e. forever, though nothing ever does)
On the solenoid failure with vertical mounted bubble counter thing, shouldn't it fail to the OFF position? So if the bubble counter water got back in there and somehow short circuited it, you would just need to replace that part... I am only a couple months in with my Milwaukee, but am very happy with it... We will see where I am in 2-3 years.
BPS injection needs would probably also change a lot between setup, with different tank sizes, uptake rates, lighting, dosing, KH, etc... IMO it is soooo much easier with the solenoid and pH meter. That said, I don't know how often you are supposed to change out the probe, but I have a friend at work who has been running his in SW for 2 years with no issues... The controller should last a long time (i.e. forever, though nothing ever does)
On the solenoid failure with vertical mounted bubble counter thing, shouldn't it fail to the OFF position? So if the bubble counter water got back in there and somehow short circuited it, you would just need to replace that part... I am only a couple months in with my Milwaukee, but am very happy with it... We will see where I am in 2-3 years.
From the research I've done on ph controllers:
The controller itself should last forever, which it won't but you get the idea. Its just a piece of electronic equipment and as long as it is treated well (no dropping it in the tank) it should last a good long time. What wears out on a ph controller is the probe. Which you'll notice is about half the cost of the ph controller, 45 bucks or so. From what I've read it looks like if you keep it from getting dirty (algae and organic matter) it should last 18 months to 3 years or so. The better you are at keeping it clean the longer it will last. This is longer than the makers say because they didn't intend it to be used in an aquarium. They expect you to use it in really nasty conditions like highly acidic or icky liquids.
As to the solenoid, the failure isn't an electrical short. Its corrosion on the solenoid piston from water as well as removal of the lubricant. In short the piston gets gummed up and sticks in either the open or closed position.
Atleast this is what I've gather from forums and google....
The controller itself should last forever, which it won't but you get the idea. Its just a piece of electronic equipment and as long as it is treated well (no dropping it in the tank) it should last a good long time. What wears out on a ph controller is the probe. Which you'll notice is about half the cost of the ph controller, 45 bucks or so. From what I've read it looks like if you keep it from getting dirty (algae and organic matter) it should last 18 months to 3 years or so. The better you are at keeping it clean the longer it will last. This is longer than the makers say because they didn't intend it to be used in an aquarium. They expect you to use it in really nasty conditions like highly acidic or icky liquids.
As to the solenoid, the failure isn't an electrical short. Its corrosion on the solenoid piston from water as well as removal of the lubricant. In short the piston gets gummed up and sticks in either the open or closed position.
Atleast this is what I've gather from forums and google....
7Enigma said:
Good pH meter may survive you (it is nothing else but good voltmeter with high internal resistance, just scaled in pH units). Electrodes are much more probable source of problems. They come in several types (see http://www.ph-meter.info/pH-electrode for details). Double junction electrodes are the ones that should work long - but they need to be refilled with electrolyte. Even when regularly refilled they wont last forever. Most popular (especially outside of lab environement) are gelled electrodes that doesn't require refilling; their usual lifespan is 6 to 9 months. NoSvOrAx can be right that in aquariums electrode lifespan can be longer - trick is, it may be hard to see that something is wrong.
dapellegrini
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Solenoid failure would not be good if it stuck open... My bubble counter always seems to stop with a half-bubble in it, so I am not sure how water would get down there (here it is stopped):
Does the probe just up and die some day, or simply degrade in quality of time?
Does the probe just up and die some day, or simply degrade in quality of time?
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