Ok I'm still having troubles with my tank. The tank is a 29 gallon freshwater. I set it up 6 weeks ago and I couldn't buy a ppm of nitrite or nitrate. I've got all the ammonia in the world though. I tested and changed water routinely and couldn't get the Ammonia under 1.5 ppm. Come to find out the water from tap has that same ammonia amount. I was using Aquasafe but upon recommendation from LFS owner I switched to Prime. He had me pour 3 cap fulls into my tank and that lowered the ammonia to .25 ppm. Today I did a water change using the recommended amounts per new water and my ammonia jumped to 1.5 ppm again. How much of should I have to use?? Along with these problems I don't think I've even begun to start my cycle. Is there something I'm doing wrong?? Sorry about all the questions.
Really bad water
- Thread starter kriddle
- Start date
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theotheragentm
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Testing tap water should only be done after it sits over night as there are some false readings on tap water just fresh from the faucet. What is in the tank currently?
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
theotheragentm said:
Only if you're testing for pH. Ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte, along with GH and KH can all be done right out of the tap.
Your tap water appears to have chloramine in it. This is what is being detected as ammonia. Prime will detoxify the ammonia in the water, but your test kit will still pick it up. It's converted to a non-toxic form and will not harm your fish/inverts.
You are also using MUCH more Prime then recommended for your tank size. With a FULL tank water change (to the substrate) you shouldn't be adding in more than 1 capful of Prime. If you only change out 5-10 gallons you want 1/2 or less of a cap. The directions on the label should be used as guidance, but you can use a little more then recommended since you have >1ppm ammonia.
Why are you doing PWC's anyway? You didn't mention it but do you have fish present in the tank or is this a FC? If its a fishless cycle I would recommend reading the article on this site.
The problem is you are not seeing any nitrIte or nitrAte. This means that your filter is not adequate yet, but I have concerns after 6 weeks of seeing no progress at all. My hunch is that the tank was not seeded or there are contaminants in the tank (detergents, etc.).
Please post exactly what you did 6 weeks ago to now.
Ok from the start, Six weeks ago I bought my tank(29gallon,Penguin 200, VisiTherm stealth 100W heater, plastic plants, gravel bottom) and set it up. I let the tank run without fish for 3 days, then was told by LFS to add hardy fish to start the cycle. So I bought 2 black mollies, 2 platies, and a neon tetra(come to find out LFS helper shouldn't have sold me this). A little over a week later I noticed one of my mollies had white spots and was informed that my fish had ich, the LFS sold me the medicine and I treated according to the label.LFS also had me switch to Imagine Bio3 Cartridges so I could remove carbon while treating. Towards the end of the treatments my tetra died and I had a significant ammonia spike(The tanks smelled and the rest of the fish were hovering around the top corner). The LFS had me administer some AMMO-LOK. This is also the time I bought a testing kit and began testing.Pretty much from here to the present I have been changing 50% of the water every 3 days or when the ammonia hits 2ppm. After reading articles on this site I've learned that I should have researched the aquarium topic a lot more horoughly. Thanks for any help, and please point out any and all mistakes I'm making.
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
kriddle said:
Yeesh, this is the typical LFS horror story. Just a quick couple of facts:
-Ich cannot be successfully treated with medication (as it has several stages of life similar to a butterfly). Heat and slight salt addition is far more effective and doesn't add chemicals to the water (except salt). You need temps above 87F to kill it, but the change has to be slow so you don't harm your fish (1 degree every 12-24 hours is good).
-When you switched out the cartridges you removed any beneficial bacteria you had built up, essentially starting back at square one (no biological filter). To make matters worse, then activated carbon in the original filters helps to remove ammonia in a new tank. This was actually buffering you against an even larger ammonia level.
-AmmoLocK, which I don't like, in this situation probably saved the rest of your fish, as those ammonia levels were WAY too high (of course PWC's are also just as effective, but it would have taken many back to back to get to acceptable levels). The problem with AmmoLock though is it completely depletes the tank of even trace amounts of ammonia, so again your biological filter suffers (like us, no food, they die)
-2ppm for you might be the proper time to change. Many of us (myself included) feel that even 1ppm is too high, and prefer less than 0.5ppm. But you have chloramines in the water so you need to use that as your "zero point". When doing your water changes do one of two things:
1. Change more water at each change (obviously larger changes remove more toxins from the water, and the extra time to remove 20 instead of 10 gallons is negligable).
2. Do more frequent PWC's. I think option 1 makes more sense IMO.
-I would recommend unless your house stays at a pretty consistent temp during all hours of the day (including at night) you think about picking up another 75 or 100w heater. We normally recommend 5 watts per gallon, I prefer closer to 8-10wpg since my house temp fluctuates a LOT at night when I turn the heat off.
From now on, don't even bother with advice from your LFS. They have basically given you poor advice the entire time, and my gut feeling is it was all for the $$$. Money for the Ich medication, money for the different filter cartridge, money for the ammolock, etc. None of those were actually needed, and all they did was hurt your cycle.
What I would recommend for you in the meantime is to do 1 or 2 HUGE PWC's, I mean to where the fish can swim around, but not much water above their heads. Match temps and use dechlor in the proper amount (if using a bucket for PWC's mix the Prime in well before adding to the tank, if using a Python or other automated filling technique dose for the whole tank). This will get your levels down to near "zero" and your fish will be very appreciative.
Next you need to get some seed material ASAP. Go back to the LFS and ask for some filter media, gravel from the tank, or if none of those are available buy some cheap plants. Put the filter media in your current filter, put the gravel in a small plastic pouch or pantyhose (clean, and never used), and take the plants and just throw them in the tank. You can rub the leaves of the plants lightly to free up some of the bacteria coating them to help seed the filter. Keep the LIGHTS OFF. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet, but you are just asking for a huge GW outbreak. This is not fun to deal with once it happens.
If you take those steps you should be able in a week or 2 to get your tank at least partially cycled, to where the ammonia and nitrIte levels are kept below 0.5-1.0ppm at all times. But remember you have chloramines in your tap water so you will never be able to detect below ~1ppm after a water change. You need to measure your tank level after a big change and use that as your "zero" level. Anything above that color and you should think about a water change.
Fortunately you have a pretty small stocking right now (especially after the fish death), and so it shouldn't be too difficult to keep the tank safe for the fish.
Goodluck, and ask as many questions as you can think of. We're here to help!
EDIT: You might also want to look into trying Biospira. It is a "biological filter in a bottle" but needs to be kept refrigerated at all times for it to work. If your LFS carries this it might be worth a try.
Just an update. My tank is finally showing signs of nitrite. The ammonia is staying right around 1 ppm and all the fish are acting normal so I'm thinking that might be my zero number. Oh by the way what is a GW outbreak?
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
kriddle said:
GW or green water (mods, want to add this hyperlink as well?
) is an algae that is free-floating. The water will get a green color to it as the algae multiplies. It is extremely small and does not attach to surfaces as most forms of algae do (BBA, hair, staghorn, etc.). It normally arises due to an ammonia spike, such as when you re-arrange your tank kicking up a bunch of crud, when a fish dies, when the tank is over fed, or in a newly cycling tank.Once established, it can be difficult to eradicate, and depending on the removal method can cause a mini-cycle (blackout). For the fish its actually beneficial because the ammonia that would normally harm the fish is being consumed, but its a pain to get rid of.
Oh, and do water changes when your nitrIte levels reach 0.5ppm-1.0ppm as, just like ammonia, its harmful to the fish.
Well I guess I can consider myself lucky because I've always had really good water clarity. Thanks for all the help, hopefully things will run a little more smoothly now that the cycle has started. I don't suppose you guys have a freshwater book recommendation for a newbie do you?
7Enigma
Aquarium Advice Addict
Hmm, there are tons out there. This is from our forum:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/freshbook.php
I have not personally read any of the books. All my knowledge comes from the good members here, college/current job, a LOT of internet reading, and the most important thing a healthy dose of common sense and skepticism.
Don't take anything, from ANYONE as fact until it makes sense to you. Ask questions when someone recommends a method/idea, and don't be afraid to challenge them on those thoughts/ideas. It's why most of my posts are so long, I don't want to just tell someone, "Add this, or do it this way", I want them to understand why they do something.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/freshbook.php
I have not personally read any of the books. All my knowledge comes from the good members here, college/current job, a LOT of internet reading, and the most important thing a healthy dose of common sense and skepticism.
Don't take anything, from ANYONE as fact until it makes sense to you. Ask questions when someone recommends a method/idea, and don't be afraid to challenge them on those thoughts/ideas. It's why most of my posts are so long, I don't want to just tell someone, "Add this, or do it this way", I want them to understand why they do something.
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