Relatively New Tank - First Timer Troubles?

[JasInRoswell]

About 2 months ago, I decided to get an aquarium kit - figured it would be a fun and rewarding hobby. Turns out, it is! Along the way, I think I may have committed a (probably) common mistake by stocking too quickly. I'm already thinking of other set ups I'd like to try when I get some more experience under my belt.

Basically, here's the skinny - I got a 36 gallon kit, set it up and let it run for a few days. I then put four black neon tetras in to get it started. Things were going well for a couple of days, when disaster struck. I returned home to find the tank nearly empty. Turns out that a large crack had formed on the bottom. Luckily, the pet store was great about swapping it out for a new one. I transferred the fish to a bucket while I got the new tank set up. They lived in a five gallon bucket with a heater and air bubbler for about a week. Interestingly enough, all four tetras are still swimming happily in their new home.

So, this new tank has been going for about 8 weeks. As part of the swap from the broken tank, they gave me a bottle of Seachem Stability and told me to let that work for a couple days and could add fish at any time. Well, that was against my better judgement, but the excitement to have the tank active led me to get 4 harlequin tetras after a week of the new tank kicking in. That led to four black mollys (one of which actually seems to be platy). One of the mollys died quickly, but the others are still doing fine.

Along the way, I got 2 African Dwarf frogs, and 2 spotted cory. The frogs did not do so well. Since then, I've added the others in my profile.

The cory were doing well for about 3 weeks. About a week ago, one started to act somewhat lethargic (hard to diagnose as these have never been active fish). In a few days, he was dead.

I found that the ammonia was reading about .5. Ph has been standing pat at 6.9 - 7.0. No reading on nitrates or nitrites. The second cory is now on death's door, just on his side on the bottom, but still breathing.

The pet store suggested ammo chips in a filter media bag in the back of my filter (not much room there). I tried that for about a week, changing the chips every 3 days or so. Last night, I finally just gave up and bought some Prime.

The reading is still ammonia .5, ph 6.9. I understand that ammonia detox solutions can bind the ammonia, thus it will still show up on tests, but not be (as) harmful to the fish. So at this point, I don't know if I have a real ammonia problem or not. I'm assuming the ammonia has affected the bottom dwellers, but not sure. Is it possible that decaying food and waste lead to a higher ammonia concentration on the bottom?

To further complicate matters, I bought a Fluval U3, but have not yet installed it, as I'm thinking I should get the ammonia to zero before starting a new cycle.

I'm planning on a 10 gallon or so water change tonight to see if that alleviates things a bit.

I guess my questions could be summed up as follows:
Do I really have an ammonia problem at this point?
Should I install the Fluval U3 now, or wait a bit?
Should I continue using Stability on water changes? I plan on using Prime on water changes from here on out. ( I do use aquarium salt as directed if that's of any use)
Is there a way to tell if the ammo chips actually helped anything? Should I just get them out of there, or leave them in?
Did I screw with the cycle too early by stocking and thinking Stability would handle it all?

Thanks in advance, sorry for the long-winded post - especially with it being my first. I shall get myself over to the new member introductions area now.

Thanks!

 

[fort384]

Welcome to AA!

I see a few areas that warrant some recommendations. You unfortunately have done a few things common to those new in the hobby... but certainly the situation is manageable.

First: You stocked too much too soon. Generally, the best method for keeping healthy fish is to use a fishless cycle to establish your nitrogen cycle, before adding any fish. Read here for more info, just for your SA:

Tips and tricks for your fastest fishless cycle!

Since you already have fish, you will find lots of useful information in this post from HN1:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ady-have-fish-what-now-116287.html#post983258

I didn't see any information about your maintenance schedule. Are you performing regular Partial Water Changes (PWCs)? In an established tank, I would recommend you change 50% of the water once a week. Since your tank still doesn't seem to have cycled, I would recommend you change 50% at least once a day, as long as ammonia a/o nitrIte is testing above 0.25 ppm. Ammonia and nitrite are extremely toxic to fish. You want to keep your nitrate below 40ppm (20 is even better).

Another area of concern: Using chemical additives to put bandaids on problems, instead of addressing the underlying issues. The only additive I ever recommend (except in extenuating circumstances) is PRIME for dechlorination when doing a PWC. The ammo chips won't address the core of the problem: a tank that has not fully cycled, and has too much bioload. The cure is clean water... PWC PWC PWC

Stability: I don't really recommend it either. I have seen a lot of positive reviews, but several that also say it doesn't really help either. Basically if you just keep the water clean, it is not necessary. Certainly unnecessary if you fishless cycle. In an established tank, I would certainly not add it every time you do a PWC... it is expensive, and not worth the cost imo.

As for the new filter: Go ahead and install it now, and just leave the other filter running for awhile. It won't hurt to have some extra filtration, and so long as the other filter remains, it won't interrupt the cycle at all. Once you are confident the nitrogen cycle is established, and the tank is pretty stable, you can remove your old filter.

The aquarium salt is not really required. It won't hurt to add it, and most LFS's recommend it for Mollys, but a lot of folks don't use it even with Mollys with no detrimental effects.

Unfortunately, it is all too common to get bad advice from your LFS (especially the big chain stores). Unfortunately, many of the employees are not very experienced (especially with starting up a tank). They tend to push products (after all they want to make money) instead of addressing the real issues. This is certainly not true of them all, but unfortunately bad advice from them is all too common. Nothing good happens quickly in an aquarium, and chemical "solutions" are often not solutions at all.

It would be helpful too to post all of your water test results... in addition to the ammonia and pH, it would be helpful to post your nitrIte results, and nitrAte results. This will help us determine just how close your tank may be to being cycled.

Also... for feeding, it can contribute heavily to ammonia if you overfeed. Most beginners always overfeed. Your fish need less than you might think. If food ends up on the bottom, you are probably overfeeding.

Again, welcome, and feel free to post additional questions!!

 

[JasInRoswell]

Thanks for the advice.

I've done the 50% water change - just finished that up (added Prime to new water before putting in) and installed the Fluval U3. That filter will take some getting used to - it seems to take up so much of the tank, but then again, it's silent - so much so, that at first, I thought it was defective and not working.

My nitrates and nitrites have been measuring at 0. I've been using the 6 in 1 test strips for nitrate/nitrite, and oddly enough, a digital kit I have for a hot tub which shows chlorination, ph and alkalinity. My ph is now showing at 6.7, alkalinity is at 77, chlorine is 0. These measurements coincide with the 6 in 1 strips. I will probably pick up a master test kit tomorrow or this weekend in case the strips aren't reliable. I did an ammonia check with the strip, and it appeared to show just a little bit of yellow, so I'm hopeful that it may be below .5 currently.

To be completely honest, I wasn't checking ammonia until the first African Dwarf died. When I took it back to the shop with a water sample, we saw the water was at the time, about 1.0. Another interesting observation - I've never seen a test strip register any reading on nitrates or nitrites. I thought the Stability was just one darn good product or something. My tank had gone through a couple periods of cloudy water, but then one day, it was clear as could be - I guess I foolishly assumed that cycling was completen based on the zero readings and the general "pluckiness" of the fish.

Along the way, I've been typically doing about 20% pwc's, with one larger one. In the earlier days of the pwc's, I was using a general tank siphon. I bought a gravel vacuum maybe 2 weeks ago and use that now - it's amazing how much junk that sucker picks up over the course of a week. Tonight, I was really jamming it into the gravel and think I got quite an impressive haul of waste. Hopefully, this will pay off.

Thanks again.

 

[ejaramillo01]

As fort mentioned early, if you are picking a lot stuff during your water changes, this could mean that you are overfeeding your fish.
Once a day, as much they eat during a 3 min period should be enough

 

[JasInRoswell]

As fort mentioned early, if you are picking a lot stuff during your water changes, this could mean that you are overfeeding your fish.
Once a day, as much they eat during a 3 min period should be enough

Could very well be - I have been feeding them twice a day on a 5 minute schedule, then putting in half a bottom feeder tablet, and a few 3-5 shrimp pellets (when I had the African Dwarfs). I'll cut down to once a day and maybe a quarter of the bottomfeeder pellet if the cory looks like he might make it through (he did look a little better last night, but I still expect the worst).

 

[JasInRoswell]

Well, looks like I have ammonia down below .5. Also looks like I'm getting a faint reading on nitrates.

Bought an AP master test kit, but those results are off the chart. I don't know how I can screw it up, but it shows my ammonia so dark green, it can't be reconciled. The pH also shows off the chart, but my digital and regular test strips show 6.8 - 7.1.

Fish are all doing well. Everyone is active and no overt signs of trouble.

 

[Homedog98]

Trust the liquid. Always trust the liquid. Do a 75 percent PWC asap! Also, your still probably recovering from all those chemicals you put in at first, so definitely do a big water change to get that taken care of. Then your results should calm down some more.

 

[jklein]

Hey jas,

Sry to do this to you but I can't figure out how to start a thread so I'm going to need to use yours for the time being as I am freaking out alittle bit with my current situation...

About 3 weeks ago I had purchased a 10 gal tank along with an air pump and undergravel filter with 2 carbon cartridges a thermometer and a heater. I set it up and let it sit for the weekend then on monday went and purchased 1 balloon belly molly, 1 mini crab, and 2 neon tetra from my local pet store.

Now comes the dilema... Today my girlfriend calls me and notifies me that the mini crab or Walker D. Plank as I had named him, has died. I had her remove him from the tank. When I got home i noticed that the balloon belly molly or Amelie, was looking rather ill as she has white spots all over her. I also noticed that one of the tetra was acting irratically and picking on her and the other neon tetra.

I immediatly began doing research and think that my molly has come down with ich. So I looked up cures and found some helpful resources including this website in which I am now a proudly member of. and I now have the tank completely covered so no light can get in and I am steadily raising the temp to about 85 degrees... Tomorrow I plan on getting some aquatic salt and the proper tools to clean the tank and gravel as well as testing the water and do a 50% water change. This is my first time so I'm not sure as to what I'm doing or if I'm doing it the correct way.

Am I taking the correct steps?.

Thank you and sorry jas
-justin

 

[Homedog98]

Slowly raise the temp to 86 degrees, go out and buy some ich attack, (aquarium salt works too, but the ich attack helps because of the directions) and add it to the water every day. Treat the whole tank, because it's never just the one fish. And you post your own thread by going to the section you want to post in, and hitting the little arrow facing out of the square box symbol thingy. And the light doesn't really matter. Just Keeps you from being able to watch your fish. And be warned, the treatment process takes a few weeks, and keep your temp up throughout.

 

[jklein]

Phew... u responded rather quickly lol... Will do homedog thanks for the advice

 

[Homedog98]

Your welcome!

 

[JasInRoswell]

Trust the liquid. Always trust the liquid. Do a 75 percent PWC asap! Also, your still probably recovering from all those chemicals you put in at first, so definitely do a big water change to get that taken care of. Then your results should calm down some more.

Did the PWC the other night, same results on liquid. 3 kits show normal pH (around 6.9 - 7.1), AP kit shows way high. Ammonia seems to be between .5 and 1 on 2 kits, (very high 4-5 on liquid), but now, I'm getting a nitrAte reading of 10 (strips match liquid) and a nitrIte reading of 0 (strips match liquid).

 

[Homedog98]

Hmm... Then it sounds like you got a faulty liquid test. I've got one of those, I'm getting a new one this week. I'd suggest you do too. But I'd go with strips with that info.

 

[JasInRoswell]

Stupid question? Could Prime throw off the liquid pH and ammonia?

 

[Homedog98]

No. Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrites for 24 hours without making it inedible for the good bacteria. That's why we all love it so much! Because it doesn't mess with your water!

 

[JasInRoswell]

Still at a loss for the .5 ammonia readings. I began to suspect my tap water, but that was a dead end. My LFS had a 20 gallon kit on sale for half price as it was missing the heater. I decided to get this for the kids room, and set it up today. Just for fun, did an ammonia test, and it was 0. Tomorrow, I'll try with the liquid test kit and see what's what. I'm thinking of going with a fishless cycle on that one. I'll probably put in a small bottle of Tetra Safe Start and then use fish food to get it going. I've already set the expectation with the boys that it could be 2 weeks at least until they can pick out their first fish.

As for my 36g tank, it looks like the pH is up a bit today (about 7.4) and ammonia is steady at .5, with nitrAtes holding at about 10. I bought the seachem in tank pH and ammonia monitors this weekend. They're matching the results on the test strips. I am considering a 30% PWC tomorrow.

I was doing some research on Prime on the Seachem website, and came across a blurb about taking ammonia readings right away when using a salicylate test kit, which the liquid ammonia test kit is. I've been following the instructions on the test kit and waiting 5 minutes. If I wait 10-30 seconds, the result is more in line with the test strips. Waiting 5 minutes shows a 5 reading or so.

Another (possibly stupid) question. I keep my aquarium light on a timer - from around noon to midnight. I find the black neon tetras seem to appreciate the light, as they are usually pale by the end of the lightless cycle, and vibrant colored within 15 minutes of the light coming on. Does the light in any way affect the establishment of bacteria? Back when I used stability, it warned against UV. I don't have a UV sterilizer, but could the flourescent light act in a similar way against the bacteria? Would a possible course of action be to try to reseed the tank with TSS and leave the light off for a couple days before and after? Keeping in mind that I recently swapped filters, I'm wondering if the bacteria just needs a bit of a kick in the butt.

Thanks.

 

[Homedog98]

You do have to wait 5 minutes for an accurate reading, but as long as your using prime daily (meaning daily PWC's) the ammonia is less toxic. Im not sure about the light issue, but my guess would be that the light helps. Do some research though, and see what comes up.

 

[ejaramillo01]

IMO lights don't have an effect in the bacteria or the cycle.

 

[JasInRoswell]

30% change tonight (with Prime). Liquid (new kit) is kind of matching strips now - strips showing .5, liquid showing 1.0. NitrAtes steady at about 10 (maybe a little less). Still no sign of nitrItes. pH still showing a bit high - 7.4. Stay the course, or try to help the bilogical filter along?

Thought of yet another stupid question. I have a pirate ship in the tank. It's got cloth sails (light canvas type material). Is it possible that these are absorbing ammonia? Granted, it wouldn't make much sense - but seeing as the ammonia changes only slightly (if at all) after a PWC, I'm wondering if there is something else in the tank causing those readings.

The 20 gallon tank is looking fine after 24 hours running. Popped a bottle of TSS in and put in some fish food flakes. Can't wait to see how that looks in 48 hours or so.

 

[Homedog98]

The pirate ship has nothing to do with it. Keep up the good work! Your on the right track!