Request your wisdom and advice please!

[USAFDave13]

Hello, I am new to the forum and to aquariums in general (7 months). I just posted my introduction but already have some questions to ask. Sorry this might be long but I'd like to give you as much info as possible.

So avoiding the long winded 7 month history of problems I have doing this, in a nutshell, my 3 yr old loves fish and so "let's get him a fish tank"..."it's just fish and water, it should be easy right!?". I'm sure you've lost count how many people have done this. Since then I've been educating myself and know what I've done wrong, so no torches or pitchforks necessary

So here we are today, I have a 20 gal. Marineland starter kit, the usual cheap rock and a few decorations (and yes, I did drop 3 fish in it the first day without cycling). I learned quickly to get away from the big box stores and found myself a good tropical aquarium store to help and I like 90% of the advice they have given me. I am worried that I have the wrong fish and/or community make up for my goals and tank. And also worried about my nitrate problem.

The current community is 1 platy, 2 rainbows (one yellow one blue, forgot the actual names), 1 red tail shark, 1 swordtail, 1 Sterbai Cory, and 1 Pleco (which after I read this morning, I'm hoping is a Bristlenose and not one of the 18 inchers).

The tank has fully cycled and on an API master kit reads 7.0 ph, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and....80+ ppm nitrate. It has been that way for about 3 weeks, nothing has died but I can't get it to drop. I've been doing 10-20% water changes 2-3 times a week for the last few weeks but it hasn't dropped. I did have two live plants in the tank but they started to decay and I read it could add to the problem so I pulled them out. Another issue is that my tap water is 9+ ph, a tough lesson to learn the hard way. So now I've been buying distilled water which is getting expensive. Per the new store I dropped in Xport-NO3 in a tied up small sock behind my filter, but i just did that yesterday.

All the fish seem to be doing fine except my red tail. I think he has a swim bladder issue. He's been swimming sideways and vertical for a couple weeks and just today I found him upside down at the top. He would swim down but would clearly float back up. Three concerns I have here, one is the nitrate issue, two is that I think I might be feeding him (who I just learned is an herbivore) the wrong food which could cause constipation and gas...I'm using marineland tropical flakes, and three that I think I've been filling the tank up too high. I say that because I don't have any type of oxygenation and while this is an educated guess, I believe the water out of the filter "ramp" should be disrupting the water surface to oxygenate the water. I generally don't like the "splashing" sound so I fill the water above the ramp. The last one is compounded because I watched the red tail gulping air from the surface yesterday.

Needless to say, I'm in over my head and need to evaluate whether or not I should be in this hobby. I've grown to like it but there are complications. I know now that a larger tank would be better but I'm active duty military and concerned about having this hobby get too large and difficult to move often during an already difficult lifestyle. The water is also an issue, while I'm not trying to accomplish this hobby for free, 10-20% water changes in a 20 gal are getting expensive...the same thing in a 55 gal would be worse. But I think I might also be overcrowded and/or have the wrong fish together.

My goal here is to continue enjoying this hobby with quite a bit less maintenance. I know it will never be no maintenance but I'm buying water, chemicals/medicines (mostly prior issues due to not cycling), and trying to keep them alive while balancing the rest of life. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

Dave

 

[Chels10117]

Well, your first mistake was not cycling the tank. It's a mistake that most new hobbiests make and one that I made myself. So don't feel bad. My advice is get a bottle of Nitrofying bacteria. Tetra safe start is a good product. Some people may not agree with me but it's worked great for me. I only needed to cycle my tank for a week and then slowly added fish. It will build up the Bb in your filter. If you're doing regular water changes but your nitrates are not dropping that is kind of odd. I'd up the water changes to 50% twice a week and see if that helps. You shouldn't have to continuously do that but it should get your nitrate levels down for right now. As for your fish stock I think you have an issue. The platy, rainbows, sword tail, Cory should be fine. Some people might tell you cories need to be in a school of 6+ but imo that's not your biggest issue right now.

Do you have a picture of your pleco? I can tell you what type it is. A common pleco (the ones that get 18+ inch) would probably be okay in your tank for a year or so but would need to be removed eventually or get a bigger tank. I think red tailed sharks get big. But I'm not sure I'll have to look that up. Go to this website called "aquadvisor" you can plug everything in and it will give you tips and tell you if your tank is overstocked. You might have to return the red tail and pleco to the store. I'm not sure what red tailed sharks eat but a little Google search can clear that up for you. Or I'm sure there are people on here that know. As for your tank size I think a 20 gal is decent. It seems like a good size considering your lifestyle. And even though bigger is "better" a 20 is a great place to start and is a good size tank imo.

Also. From what I hear having a steady pH and hardness is better than the "ideal" pH and hardness. Fish will adapt to it. So it's better to leave it be. Distilled water takes out a lot of the nutrients in water. Honestly I have hard water with a high pH and my fish are fine. Just use your tap water. And a declorinator.

I think your fish stock is a little bit off. But like I said check with aqadvisor. I don't see anything that clashes too much. The red tailed shark and the pleco is just what raises a red flag to me.

Lastly, take a deep breath. Relax. Look at your fish tank and ask yourself. Do I have the time for this? Is the maintenance worth it? Is this relaxing and does this make me happy? You need to decide for yourself if you want to be in this hobby. Trust me in the beginning I felt like you. Discouraged. Uninformed. Over my head. But it's all in the learning process of fish keeping. A great, rewarding hobby.

Read up one some articles. Do research on your fish. Watch some YouTube videos. Ask people on here. That's how I learned. Don't trust people at the fish store 100%. Take what they say with a grain of salt. They don't always know as much as you think they do.

Anyways, good luck. I hope you get everything figured out. And I hope you decide to stay in the hobby.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Coryluv]

I'm not going to try to answer everything, but first you need to be doing water changes at least weekly. That nitrate reading should ideally be 20 ppm or less. Definitely no more than 40 ppm. Do a 50% water change and keep doing them until it is below 40. Be sure to match temperature when doing larger water changes.

I can't help you on the water situation. What does your local shop recommend? If I recall a ph of 9 is above standards for drinking water but I may be wrong on that. Is there an aquarist in your area who can help you with a water source? Also, if you use all distilled water, you need to add minerals to it. Pure water alone is not good for fish.

I'm not a shark expert, but they are aggressive, get large, and are not appropriate for most community tanks. It, and if your pleco is a common, should be rehomed (eventually).

I know others will jump in with more info so I'll leave it there. Best wishes.

 

[Coryluv]

P.S. There is nothing that can't be fixed. 20 gal is a great size. I was writing when the post before mine was posted, but I agree that Aqadvisor is a great resource. Unless there is something bad in your tap water, you can just mix in some distilled water to lower the pH. I've never dealt with a pH above 8. I looked it up and the recommended upper limit for drinking water is 8.5 which is why most people do not mess with pH unless they are keeping Discus or something else with particular requirements.

 

[coralbandit]

Hey welcome to AA!
Quite the situation you have with water!
A ro system is not in the works?
You could get a cheap one for less then 150-200g of distilled at Walmart!(not counting gas and time!)
If still no then you need to lower stocking in order to maintain good parameters without a lot of maintenance IMO.
Some of your fish don't fit(IMO) or are not in proper numbers,so this on that.
Send the red tail and pleco.(I meant re home them)
Niether are needed and size is a an issue.
If for nothing else they are largest waste creators IMO and maintneance goes down when they go.
The platy and sword can cross breed so for what it is worth 3(1 male 2 females) of either would be better except for livebearer breeding potential.
Another overstocking maintenance nightmare in the making.
If you had just males then 2 are going to be trouble IMO.
Females can reproduce for up to 7 months without even seeing a male!
Cories would like to be in a school and sterbia are some of the most expensive.
You should have 5+ of same species (again) IMO.
Need pics of the rainbows to have any comment except 20 long or tall?
20 longs are 30 inches 20 talls are 24 inches .
It sound like you made it through a lot an are going to become a great keeper!
I have more questions on your water,and suspect a 24 inch 20 g?
But for now I will let others welcome you also.

 

[USAFDave13]

Thanks for all the help. So just to clarify, the tank is now cycled Chels so we are good there. I have always done water changes at least once per week but am now doing 2-3 times per week since this nitrate issue has arisen.

So far I don't have any aggression in the tank. I had bought the red tail because he was marked "community" and "5 inches" ..... funny how that works. On a random note, the red tail is doing much better a few hours later since I 1) lowered the water to allow it to oxygenate again, 2)fasting him for a day, 3) once he produced waste twice. He's no longer floating to the top. He isn't as lively as normal, moving around a bit but how he is hanging out on the bottom, but that isn't totally abnormal.

I could mix the tap and distilled water, never thought of that. I had a lot of fish die very quickly when doing frequent water changes with tap, it wouldn't even register on the PH scale, only the high PH test worked. Never thought of a RO system, almost feels over the top for the level I'm going for.

The 20 is a long btw. I stopped by another local non-chain fish store to run some stuff by them. They did say to lower the water level to oxygenate the water and likely why the red tail was trying to get air at the surface. They also recommended blood worms for the red tail and cory, that they would likely eat that instead of the flakes. Other than that they said it's not the most likely cause but if the red tail had an infection, his waste could be keeping the nitrate up. Another customer standing near agreed and recommended tetracycline, I grabbed it thinking if it doesn't help then it works on many other things I might encounter.

I do also use stability and prime as directed, btw prime didn't even scratch my readings for nitrate. I'm going to keep an eye on the red tail as far as possibly keeping him, I mean he shares his castle with the pleco and has the bottom pretty much to himself other than the cory. The rainbows, platy and swordtail share the top.

Anyways here are a few pictures to help.

 

[coralbandit]

The prime works but will not change the test reading!
Sooooo.
Don't go crazy with it looking to note a difference.
It does work and is good stuff.
The lower rainbow looks like a turquoise!
Turquoise Rainbowfish – Melanotaenia lacustris
Not the bible or wiki but a quick check to compare to others!
First rainbow looks like parkinsoni IMO.
Parkinson's Rainbowfish, Melanotaenia parkinsoni, Orange Rainbowfish
Another comparative link but not from a true rainbow site.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

RO isn't over the top if it's the answer to the problem!
The shark would love sinking type catfish pellets, as would most of your fish!
Ummm, pretty much all fish love bloodworms.

Yes, you're having a rough start but we all gotta start somewhere, keep at it and it will soon get easier, I'm not sure I met a fish keeper yet who started out knowing everything! I don't know a fish keeper who does know everything!
It's impossible.

Nitrate reduction works on percentages, a 50% change will only half the reading, so you need to do lots of changes, given your water differences, lots of small ones.

Maybe even everyday until you can sort the difference.

 

[USAFDave13]

Thanks, yeah I think I'm going to try daily water changes for about a week and see if that helps the nitrate. I THINK I might actually have a bristlenose pleco.

Here is a better picture of mine.

And here is an example of the good old wiki page.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

That looks like a female ancistrus, I have one just like it!
It's about 12ish cms or 4-4 1/2" max. Mine is real old so it definitely isn't growing anymore!
They are great working fish, they save you loads of work and they enjoy doing it!
I can't post links/pics at the mo because Flickr changed again!

 

[Coryluv]

Compliments for giving your pleco fresh veggies! (Just thought you'd enjoy an encouraging word).

 

[Ulmina]

Hello, welcome:

My two cents. I'm a different breed of cat & what i say is never the normal opinion, lol. That said, I would mostly like to talk about your fish, to start.

20 gal is NOT fine for everything ~ it's on the small side but can be stocked in a satisfying way. IMO, the pleco and shark AND rainbows should be removed Now ~ don't keep investing in them emotionally because they are all way too big for a 20! RTS have a habit of eating other fish as they get bigger, too. Rainbows are gorgeous but will need a 55 + before you know it.

The First thing I would ask when i look at a fish in a store or photograph, EVERY time, is "how big does it get?" The next question is, "is it peaceful?" The 3rd question is can two males be kept in a 20 gal tank, or can a pair be kept, because even "peaceful" fish have their druthers. Related to the 3rd question is "how territorial is the fish?" A 20 gal just DOES NOT have adequate space for establishing territory. Your fish will need to be MELLOWWWWW.

A peaceful, beautiful stock list for you could be something like 3 - 5 Rummynose Tetras - really cool to watch, they school pretty tightly most of the time and are very attractive. To them you could easily add a reasonable # in groups of 3 or 5 another 2 breeds of fish such as micro-corys, vietnamese white cloud mountain minnows, neon tetras, rainbow furcatas, and maybe one centerpiece fish that does not get more than about 2". This is working out for me in my tanks. My centerpiece fish are a mellow male Betta & the other tank has 2 Sunset Gouramis.

Water. My pH is at or over 7.5 and my hardness is up there, i forget the # or maybe i didn't really understand the test, lol. My attitude is that if the fish came from LFS a mile or so away, the water should be the same. Am not seeing problems related BUT i Stay Away from ANY fish that is described as preferring soft and/or acidic water! Why bother??? No matter how much i might want that fish. Faggedhaboutit.

Like others said, I also do not understand your nitrate problem unless perhaps it is something like you are not gravel vaccing? Nitrate is the 3rd stage of bacteria colonization & i have seen it take a 'little' longer, but something weird is going on with you. I recommend getting a bottle of Seachem's Stability and follow the instructions. Use it every day for 5 - 7 days, just read the bottle. I agree about the Prime, too, it helps the fish because there are repercussions in the future for enduring bad parameters, but do not keep buying the distilled water, imo. Do not go nuts with the Prime, the dose is small and "more is not better." I cycled with fish, but did water changes AND all 3 tests every day, and some days I had to change the water Twice for like 4 - 7 days in a row. I didn't know about Prime when I went through that the first time. I have a normal filter plus a sponge filter in all my tanks of at least 5 gal, which also makes a big difference. Or get a second HOB filter like a Penguin 150 or Whisper 30i. Not unheard of to have two filters.

Lastly, I recommend returning to natural plants sooner rather than later because they take up these 'problems' we have as nutrients, and are just better & more pleasant for your animals. Buy plants from people who can guarantee they don't have snails, like the lines PetsMart sells. I was FINE until i bought plants at the Aquarium Society auctions & they are a royal b.. to get rid of. Exception is the Nerite snail, a very lovely creature but I never could keep mine alive more than a month or two. Do not underestimate the benefit of ghost shrimp as a cleanup crew, but do not add them until your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are under control (very good levels near or at -0-) or they won't last very long.

If you have all the pieces right and matching, like I am describing or something similar, the maintenance is not onerous at all. Just keep an eye on your pets, though. Spend a total of at least 30 - 60 minutes a day paying attention to the entire watery situation. Smell the water, see if the color is changing, look at the calendar, look at your pets, watch them swimming & relating. Observe mealtimes & make sure every fish is eating something & none is being prevented from food. Enlist your intuition ~ it just starts becoming part of you to do this.

These are my second round of tanks after a break of about 18 years. I used to have 2 cichlid tanks & 2 community tanks, all 20 - 65 gal range.

Good luck.

 

[TMRC Exotics]

The nitrate problem is a result of not enough volume being removed at once(excluding it being a cycling issue). Your simply not removing enough nitrates at each change and they are constantly being produced. Think of it like an hour glass of sand with a slow steady stream of sand building up in the lower chamber. If its depositing 2 inches of sand slowly per week and you remove 10% weekly then each week the level is rising far more than you are removing. There are other variables but this is just an example to put a visualization to an invisible reaction occurring in the tank.
You need to do changes of at minimum 25% once weekly. Ideally about 6-8 gallons at once which would put you around 35-40% changes. I would do 50% water changes twice weekly until you can get the nitrates in the safe range.

Now for the fish, the RTS needs to go. They get too big, are too active and get very territorial with age. Personally I would rehome the pleco as well but if its a smaller variety then that will be your choice. I'm sure the rest has been covered, cories need groups of 6. I would trade out the shark and get 6 neon tetras or 6 harlequin rasboras.

 

[Coryluv]

I want to add that the number one reason everyone says the red tailed shark needs to go is that even in the cases they may reach an uneasy peace with your other bottom dwellers, they need at a minimum a 40 gallon tank. A 55 gallon is usually the minimum recommended. A responsible pet store should put that on the label on the tank -- one per tank/55 gal or larger recommended.

On your water, you know it may not have been your tap water, but the fact that at that time your tank was not cycled. I just realized that.

I know you have a lot of people giving opinions, including me. Read it, take it in, and do some more googling and study. Then make your own decision. There are a lot of right ways to do things as well as some wrong ones.

I keep corys and while 6 are optimal, a small school of 3 will do fine in a 20 gallon tank imho. Also many cory keepers know that some different species will school together. Right now, I have 1 peppered and 4 pandas. I would recommend peppered (corydoras paleatus) as a great starter cory that will do reasonably well in harder water. As importantly, they like cooler water. I keep my tank at 75 F for that reason which is at the low end for the other fish I keep and at the higher end for the corys.

If I had a pH over 9 I'd probably be cutting it down to 7.5-7.8 using RO water. My tap water pH here is 7.8 which is on the high end for the fish I keep (tetras and corys). pH stability is more important than exact numbers, but over 9 is generally not recommended. I do not agree with the do nothing and keep hard water, high pH fish when the pH is that out of whack. I think cutting the pH with RO water is perfectly reasonable in that case. It is no fun to keep fish if you can't at least keep some of the fish you are attracted to.

Most importantly most all of us have gone through things like you are going through. My first tank was in the 70s. All I had back then was The Innes Book and a pet store that was willing to sell me any fish I was willing to buy. My first tank, I added too many fish too fast and had a total disaster as well as ich. So don't feel bad and don't give up.

As much as we pontificate and bloviate at times, those who've gone before really do want you to succeed and enjoy the hobby.