Sick Molly

[canuckaquarist]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).

Gold Dust Molly is afflicted. He sometimes swims in one spot, and seems to be moving his back fin/end fast, hovers at the top at times, and I have witnessed him rub his body onto the gravel, plastic plants, and other decor. As of this moment he is hiding in the ship decor.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrates, 0 Nitrates, 78 C, 7.6-7.8 PH.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?

12-15G, has been setup for 6-7 months now, he was added to the tank 2nd or 3rd week.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.

Pengiun BIO-Wheel 100 with a single airstone to add more oxygen.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?

3 Adult Gold Dust Mollies (Him and his mates).
3 Juvenile Gold Dust Mollies (Babies)
1 Female Fancy Guppy
2 Whiteskirt Tetras

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

Did a 50% water change over a week ago, did a 10% the other day. Do anywhere from 20-30% weekly, did the 50% because 4 Neon's died and was worried about water quality.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

I have had him for pretty much 6 months.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

Have not added any new chemicals or decor.

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

I feed them Nutrifin tropical flakes daily, Big Al's dried bloodworms twice a week, and Big Al's frozen brine shrimp once a week.

 

[Guest]

is he showing any spots or patches? Gills red? Pale color? Gasping?

 

[canuckaquarist]

No spots or patches, colour is the same, and doesnt seem to be gasping. However, his gills (cheek area) does look red.

 

[An t-iasg]

Rubbing on plants or decor could indicate a parasite that the fish is trying to scratch off. Ich is a common parasite. Do you see small, white spots on the molly or any of the fish? Here is an article on ich: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32

Swimming in one spot may indicate shimmy. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/meds/medication18a.html

Click on the treatments in that link to read about them. I have never used them (don't have mollies) but they should be composed of mostly aquarium salt or electrolytes. Or you could add one tablespoon of aquarium salt, gradually, to the tank, and then up to one more tablespoon if necessary, to stop the shimmy.

 

[Guest]

sounds like ich from the behavior to me. The rubbing is called 'flashing' which is a big indicator of ich.

I would QT and do heat treatment and observe for a few days, see if the behavior improves.

Hope that helps.

Also, when my dalmation molly got ich, the first place i actually saw a spot was behind his fins, like in his armpit. i almost didn't see it.

 

[canuckaquarist]

Thanks for the information.

I see absolutely no white spots or bumps on him at all. But he does have red cheeks/gills.

I guess I will try to medicate him for both shimmy and ich.

 

[Guest]

do ich first.


wait on the shimmy block. Try to treat him with just heat and salt if you can. avoid adding unnatural meds if you can treat him without.


Better to add as little outside influence as possible.

 

[canuckaquarist]

Would Epson salt be okay? or does it have to be aquarium salt?

 

[Ky'smommy]

I think ich can go in the gills too.
so agree try the heat first. Slowly raise it on degree every hour until it is above 88
and leave it like that for two weeks. (if ich is the culprit) and add on tablespoon? per 10 gallons? ( i will make sure on the dosing in a few).
wait a few days things should be better. if not it might be another culprit.

 

[Guest]

no on the epsom salt. i use sea salt with no additives if i can't get aquarium salt.

 

[canuckaquarist]

Weird.

I got a QT all setup, was trying to find an airstone to put in it to keep oxygenated. While trying to find the airstone I kept checking up on the aquarium, and now he seems to be swimming around fine. Even chasing the females trying to mate.

He is not even going near the top like he was, hes going around sucking on decor (finding algae). Even his dorsal fin is perking up a bit at times, previously it was down.

Could he just have been not feeling well? Can fish actually feel under the weather like a human?

I am going to keep monitoring him, see if he stays back to normal. Don't really want to put him in a QT and stress him out if hes perking up now.

 

[An t-iasg]

I suppose a fish can perk up a bit, just like we can if we are sick. But - he was flashing and rubbing, and if it is ich, that won't just go away. I would raise the temperature as suggested and also add 1 tablespoon of aquarium (not epsom) salt. This can help the ich and shimmy at the same time, and salt is also helpful to dehydrate and kill the ich parasite. There is no need to place the fish in a separate QT tank. The ich parasite is all through the tank, and isolating one fish won't help - you have to treat the tank. Temperature and salt are the best way to treat. Heat alone is usually a good way to cure ich, but with the shimmy, you can also add salt. It won't hurt the tetras, and it has the added advantage of helping to kill the ich also.

 

[canuckaquarist]

I could not find any Aquarium Salt, so I got this Aquari-Sol Parasite and Ick Prevention treatment.

Now it says remove all carbon from the filter, but do not discontinue filtration. I am using a Pengiun 100 BIO-wheel filter, do I just cut open the filter cartridge and dump out the carbon then put the cartridge back in? or just remove the whole cartridge and let the filter keep going without it?

It says to repeat the treatment again 24 hours after the first treatment. I presume the carbon can be introduced again after the treatment is done (after 48 hours). Or should I wait until the next water change?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, I just don't want to treat my aquarium incorrectly and do more damage then good.

 

[An t-iasg]

Definitely remove the carbon during treatment with meds - the carbon can absorb the med and make it ineffective. You can either cut your cartridge open and empty the carbon, or you can just remove the cartridge, but then you won't have any filtration to catch small particles. I did this one time (removed the whole cartridge) and tried to put filter floss in place of the cartridge for a few days. The floss ended up getting sucked into the bio-wheel. How old is the carbon? You'll usually have to replace it every week or two anyway -- so if it's that old, then just cut the cartridge and throw the carbon away, and put the empty cartridge back (rinse it in old tank water to remove all carbon crumbs) to serve as some particle filtration.

I would do a water change and put fresh carbon in to get rid of the rest of the medicine after the treatment is done, in 48 hours. Don't forget to check your parameters in case of a mini-cycle. Parasite meds usually will not cause an ammonia spike like antibiotics in the tank can, but it's always a good idea to check parameters when using meds in the tank.

BTW - most of us do not run carbon - chemical filtration - in the tank all the time. I only use it to remove meds, and I think the last time I did that was a few years ago. Carbon is not effective for more than a week, so it's an added expense to replace it every week or so. The bio-wheel is your biological filtration, and the cartridge, minus the carbon, is your mechanical filtration. That's really all you need.

 

[canuckaquarist]

Update:

I just did tests on my water.

7.8 PH; 0 Nitrates, 0 Nitrites, but 4 Ammonia.

Any ideas on how to get rid of this Ammonia? I add AquaSafe to all my water changes. I had 0 Ammonia last test which was about 3 days ago when I noticed my fish acting sick.


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Wow great information, thanks An t-iasg!

I just cut open a new cartridge and emptied all the carbon (had a few peices I couldnt get, but 99% of it is out. I will try to find some cartridges without carbon when I go buy more. I will also put a new filter after the treatment is done, the bottle also said for 3 weeks add the same dosage once a week to be sure that the parasites are gone.

But yeah awesome information, I learn something or several new things everytime I come on these forums, its good to know that the carbon is not needed all the time.

Thanks again, heres hoping these med's help my fish. I also got the temperature up to 83/84 now, I heard a range of 82-88 will help kill the parasites.

Thank you!
-Blake

 

[An t-iasg]

Wow, that is a high level of ammonia. Do you mean 4 or .4? 4 is very high - if that's the case, do a 75% water change now and another 50-75% tomorrow. I wouldn't think Aquarisol can cause this but I could be wrong. Maybe the carbon you removed had more good bacteria on it than we thought.

Also, you should make a decision on which treatment to use - the Aquarisol or heat. Heat alone has worked for many members. The heat must be up to 87 degrees to kill the ich. Temps at 83 or 84 will just speed up the lifecycle of ich, meaning lots of them hatch, and are in the water column, but they won't die at that temperature. The combination of heat AND meds may be too stressful for the fish.

Some people have reported success with heat and half the amount of Aquarisol. You may give that a try. I'm not sure how I feel about that idea. I think that the copper in Aquarisol has to be at a certain concentration to have any effect, but it's something you could try and monitor.

During ich treatment you should be doing a water change every day. It helps to remove the free-swimming ich. This will also help the ammonia problem.

Another thing that the article said was that heat can kill the ich at all life stages - on the fish, in the water, and in the substrate waiting to hatch out again (the article has the proper names for each stage. I always forget). Medicines are only effective in the free-swimming stage. When the ich is encapsulated on the fish (the bump that you can see) or when it forms a cyst around itself in the gravel, it is not susceptable to the meds. There are always ich at each stage in the tank, but the meds can only get some of them, whereas the heat works on all the ich, not matter what stage they are in.

Heat can be stressful in itself also. If the fish appear to be gasping, you could increase the aeration by adding some more airstones or lowering the water level just a bit to make the bio-wheel return splash and cause some surface agitation. That will bring more oxygen into the water.

Good luck!

 

[canuckaquarist]

Thanks again, appreciate it!

It is indeed at 4 not .4 unfortunately.

I just did a 75% water change over an hour ago, I believe I got it down to 2ish now, the test result definately came in a lighter shade this time.

I will do another 75% change tomorrow afternoon, and I will add a second air-stone as well. I think I had the water temperature to around 86ish, I got it back up to around 84 now.

I think what I will do now is try the heat method like you said. I was reading around and I read that the carbon in filter cartridges fight or reduce the Ammonia. So I am wondering if because I removed the carbon because the medication called for it, if thats why the Ammonia is spiked?

If thats true, I am going to go grab some new cartridges tomorrow (used my last one today) and let the carbon do its work.

The ironic thing about all of this, is the Molly that seemed sick is acting a lot better. His dorsal (back?) fin is no longer slumped down, hes swimming around even more, just seems like his old usual self.

Also none of the other fish are acting any different either, except the pregnant Guppy who seems to be getting close to labour. She was swimming up and down pacing along the aquarium walls the other day, now shes beginning to lose her appetite and just swimming slowly around like a sunday driver.

 

[joannde]

Do you know the brand name of the filters and carbon you used ? Carbon doesn't normally reduce ammonia, unless its the "ammo-lock" type. When you cut the filter to take out the carbon was it a new filter or did you just remove the carbon from the filter that was already in the tank ? Either way, you probably inadvertantly removed alot of your good bacteria. You're going to have to keep doing water changes until your tank recycles - keep the ammonia to .5ppm if you can since ammonia is more toxic at higher temps.

 

[canuckaquarist]

Yeah it was a new filter

My are acting normal, going to do another water change now, just did another Ammonia reading and its around 1 or 2 still.

I am an idiot.

 

[joannde]

You're not an idiot ! We ALL go through something like this. You are actually SMART because you weren't afraid to ask questions and you came to the forum for advice.
Keep us posted !


EDIT - by the way, when you change filters in the future try squeezing the old one into the filter after you replace it - that will get your new filter seeded a little faster.