snow globe effect

[daveNandi]

Our 46 g tank has developed a "snow globe" problem. It's been up and running with LR for ~1 month, got snails/hermits about 2 weeks ago, and got a scarlet cleaner shrimp 9 days ago. The shrimp molted the next day, and we left the carapace in the tank.

Over the last week, I've noticed more and more very fine white particles circulating in the water. They're almost air bubble size. They don't seem to stick to anything, and the skimmer doesn't seem to be removing them. Also over the last week, we've started to get some hydroids on the tank's glass. These are similarly white but seem to be slightly larger than whatever is floating in the water.

Should we be worried? All the water parameters test out ok (ie, pH, salinity, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, KH) and the critters don't seem to be disturbed by it, but it looks weird.

 

[biotoxin]

did u test for calcium?

 

[daveNandi]

Isn't that the same as KH? Ours is 10.

 

[Dewey]

Have your added anything to the tank that has aloe in it? This will cause microbubbles.



Dewey

 

[daveNandi]

nothing

 

[steve-s]

Isn't that the same as KH? Ours is 10.

Calcium and alkalinity are two seperate issues in a marine aquarium, KH will not serve your purposes but that's a whole seperate post. Since you have not added anything to the tank chem wise, it could simpley be bubbles from the skimmer or fine sediment being thrown into the water column from the substrate.

Curious question though, do any of these "snow globe" wanna be's have a an actual pattern to their movement or are they haphazard?

Cheers
Steve

 

[daveNandi]

Actually,

Since you have not added anything to the tank chem wise

isn't quite right. We have add Tech CB Calcium Buffer (10ml/day for about 5 days to bring pH up from 8.0 to 8.2. We've just added nothing with Aloe.

Curious question though, do any of these "snow globe" wanna be's have a an actual pattern to their movement or are they haphazard?

Originally, some of the white dots seemed to have a "tail" and purposful movement, especially against the glass. Most, however, had no "tail" and the movement seemed completely random. Now, we see none with any sign of life.

I originally thought perhaps they were larval cleaner shrimp and we'd acquired a shrimp that had eggs, but read that they were about 1mm in diameter and these are much smaller.

 

[steve-s]

Actually,

Since you have not added anything to the tank chem wise

isn't quite right. We have add Tech CB Calcium Buffer (10ml/day for about 5 days to bring pH up from 8.0 to 8.2. We've just added nothing with Aloe.

Then most likely what you have been experiencing is calcium precipitate. That dosage for a 46 gal tank (depending on start point) could very easily up the numbers to a dangerous level. Ionic liquids should not be used to correct ph issues. Balanced additives like this should be used for correcting/maintaining alk/ca levels. If you are having a low ph problem, then determining the cause is much more important. Addining chems is a bandaid. Low ph can be caused by several things, usually low GPH and insufficient surface aggitation, tightly covered lid on the tank or high ambient CO2 in the room. What time of day are you testing the ph and what are the alk & Ca levels?

Curious question though, do any of these "snow globe" wanna be's have a an actual pattern to their movement or are they haphazard?

Originally, some of the white dots seemed to have a "tail" and purposful movement, especially against the glass. Most, however, had no "tail" and the movement seemed completely random. Now, we see none with any sign of life.

I originally thought perhaps they were larval cleaner shrimp and we'd acquired a shrimp that had eggs, but read that they were about 1mm in diameter and these are much smaller.

Actually without another shrimp to fertilize the eggs that cannot happen. My thought was it could have been hermit larvae which will swim closer to the light and "bob" in the water with a more linear movement. With the info on the chems, I am much less likely to lean that way.

Cheers
Steve

 

[biotoxin]

exactly why i asked if he checked CA in the beginning. Last time i thought someone had ca precip i was wrong so i didnt mention it this time, guess i shoulda

 

[daveNandi]

Took a water sample to the LFS and they checked CA - said it was 420, which they said was perfect. They also re-checked the KH - 10 and PH - 8.2. They think it's fine particles of substrate floating around the tank and suggested a mechanical filter that looks like a giant white sock and sits on the end of the hose to our sump. We added it about an hour ago and I'd say 25 to 50% of the particles have disappeared.

Our tank has a top now, because we got a jawfish a couple of weeks ago but the pH was 8.0 before we got the lid. In terms of gas exchange, we have a maxi-jet 1200 PH (295 GPH) which is angled up a little to provide some surface agitation and the sump return. In the sump we have a Aqua C Urchin powered by another MaxiJet 1200 and a little fan blowing over the top to disipate heat and make sure air circulates.

As far as time of day for testing, usually mid-day, but it seems to make no difference the levels are the same whenever I test.

What would you suggest we use to bring the pH up instead of the TechCB buffer?

 

[steve-s]

Good to hear the levels are in check for alk & Ca but if you are going to use suppliments like this, you should have the proper test kits on hand to check them yourself prior to each addition. This will ensure you do not have a future precip problem. The levels being fine now does not truely mean it did not happen though.

ph tested by the LFS is pointless. Once removed from the tank, the reading will be skewed if the sample is transported. I would try to determine if it's not your test kit that is the problem or the water movement before you try fixing it chemically. Remove two samples from the tank and only test one right away. Leave the other uncovered and test it 1 hour later and compare the results. If the older sample has a better ph, you still have a gas exchange problem. Keep in mind that the surface area of the sump is usually smaller footprint than that of the main tank so you still sacrifice good O2/CO2 exchange by using a glass lid. The skimmer does not contribute too much on the whole.

Cheers
Steve

 

[daveNandi]

Steve,

Thanks, I'll give it a try tomorrow to see how gas exchange is doing. I'll try it mid-day, since that's when I usually test. If I need additional surface to do gas exchange I've been thinking of a hang on refugium anyway.

In terms of transport affecting PH, the LFS is about 2 miles from the house, perhaps 5 minutes, 10 on a really bad day.

I have a test kit, but it doesn't include Calcium, which is really pretty expensive.

David

 

[steve-s]

In terms of transport affecting PH, the LFS is about 2 miles from the house, perhaps 5 minutes, 10 on a really bad day.

That will still be enough to skew the results. Best tested at home immediately after removing form the tank to be accurate.

I have a test kit, but it doesn't include Calcium, which is really pretty expensive.

I would not recommend the continues additions unless you have the ability to test the levels. If you do continue without testing, there will be further problems. Not trying to banter you, just fair warning

Cheers
Steve

 

[daveNandi]

I tested water straight from the tank and after an hour on the counter. No difference, so I gues I'm getting reasonable gas exchange. Still thinking about adding a refugium to increase gas exchange. LFS doesn't carry CPR Aquafuge but they're looking into it for me.

I stopped adding buffer for now. I'll see what happens to the PH.

We added a filter and for a while that made things better. Then, it got worse again. We believe the problem is being caused by microbubles and plan to replumb the return line to fix it. At the same time we'll plumb in a UV sterilizer, which we can use as we need it, and get rid of the ball valves that I think are where the air is getting in the return.

 

[HoopsGuru]

Can I suggest the particles are from the jawfish rearranging his new home?

 

[daveNandi]

We replumbed and added the UV sterilizer (although we haven't turned it on yet) and that took care of the problem. Overnight we went from snowglobe to a few floating particles.

We'd like to thank everyone for their help and advice on this very agravating problem.

David and Andrea