Soon to be new 36G tank and have some questions..

[Cieno]

Hello!

So the only thing I've actually gotten so far is the tank(36G bowfront if it matters?) and stand, but i've been researching the other bits and pieces I will need. During the research i've developed a few questions that i'm hoping to get answers to ^_^. My main questions are below, but I will continue to look about the forum and edit if I find an answer prior to anyone replying.

First, for a filter I plan on getting a Fluval C4 Power Filter. While perusing the forums and googling to my hearts content i've noticed alot of people stating that using the replacable carbon filters is generally a very bad idea. My question is why is this and what should I use instead?

Second, I plan on doing a fishless cycling of my tank but have read that you need to "seed" the new tank with good bacteria from an already established tank via gravel or decorations and such for this to work. Would a liquid bacteria additive work for this(like API Stress Zyme? I don't feel comfortable adding something like that though.) or do I really need to find someone with a well established tank instead?

Third, Water conditioners. Which should I use??!? There are so so sooooo many out there and no real information(that I could find) to help point out which is better than the others or even if there is one better.

My final question(for now ^_~). Does it matter to the fish what type of lighting I use?(I do not plan on having live plants but want to make sure I get anything the fish may need.) I planned on getting a Coralife 50/50 bulb, but am wondering if I should be looking at specific types of bulbs instead(even googling I had trouble finding any real information on this topic).

in advance for any help you guys can offer.

Cieno

 

[librarygirl]

Hi and welcome. My replies in blue....

Hello!

So the only thing I've actually gotten so far is the tank(36G bowfront if it matters?) and stand, but i've been researching the other bits and pieces I will need. During the research i've developed a few questions that i'm hoping to get answers to ^_^. My main questions are below, but I will continue to look about the forum and edit if I find an answer prior to anyone replying.

First, for a filter I plan on getting a Fluval C4 Power Filter. While perusing the forums and googling to my hearts content i've noticed alot of people stating that using the replacable carbon filters is generally a very bad idea. My question is why is this and what should I use instead? There is some debate on whether you need carbon in a filter; generally it's used to remove things like medications from the water. It can be used otherwise. SOme think after a while it goes dormant (e.g. the carbon stops working and just becomes a surface for the bacteria to live on) and some say that the carbon can release things back into the water if it isn't replaced regularly. Most of us use a sponge or ceramic rings or something else instead of the carbon but I don't know for sure one way or the other if it's "bad" to use it.

Second, I plan on doing a fishless cycling of my tank but have read that you need to "seed" the new tank with good bacteria from an already established tank via gravel or decorations and such for this to work. Would a liquid bacteria additive work for this(like API Stress Zyme? I don't feel comfortable adding something like that though.) or do I really need to find someone with a well established tank instead? No, you don't need seeded media. It can help speed the cycle up by introducing the bacteria into the tank faster but the bacteria will make its way into the tank regardless, it just might take a bit longer without media. If you don't have access to any you can purchase a seeded "active" filter from these guys; just make sure it says "active" next to it or else you're just buying a plain filter. Do you "need" seeded media to fishless cycle? No. I wouldn't bother with the additives either; they are hit and miss.

Third, Water conditioners. Which should I use??!? There are so so sooooo many out there and no real information(that I could find) to help point out which is better than the others or even if there is one better. Seachem Prime

My final question(for now ^_~). Does it matter to the fish what type of lighting I use?(I do not plan on having live plants but want to make sure I get anything the fish may need.) I planned on getting a Coralife 50/50 bulb, but am wondering if I should be looking at specific types of bulbs instead(even googling I had trouble finding any real information on this topic). Most fish probably don't care although some may prefer more subdued lighting than others but I've never heard of lighting harming fish; get the type you like best and/or whatever your plants need if you decide to get them (high light, medium light, etc).

in advance for any help you guys can offer.

Cieno

 

[Kingzilla]

Just a note on the Prime water conditioner, it removes ammonia and detoxifies nitrite and nitrate so this will give you false readings when you test your water to determine if the tank has cycled. To solve this, after a few weeks, you may want to switch to another conditioner temporally for your water changes so that you can test the ammo, NO2, and NO3 levels to see if your tank has properly cycled. Once you know that your tank is properly cycled, you can switch back to Prime.

I had this problem with my tank, the water kept testing identical to my tap water as the extra toxins were removed by the Prime water conditioner.

and just to clarify, when I say that Prime gives you false readings, I'm referring specifically to determining if the tank has cycled. The test results for standard purposes (fish health/safety) are correct.

 

[Zaedon]

If you can wait to get fish no conditioner is necessary. Just cycle the aquarium and you are good to go. Most conditioners will slow the cycling process or stop it completely as they remove ammonia from the water by chemical as opposed to the bio cycle. An aquarium can cyle in as little as a couple of weeks to a couple of months dependings on what you put in the aquarium to start the cyle. Carbon will interfer with cycling as well as it will remove ammonia from the water. Use carbon as needed to remove medicines from the water.

 

[librarygirl]

Sorry but I disagree with both of you.

Prime will not give false readings; I fishless cycled my tank with Prime and the readings were fine. Prime does not remove ammonia or nitrite, etc but just temporarily converts it to a less toxic form but will still be visible on the test kit. If you received false readings it was probably a testing error or a faulty kit.

Also, you do need to use conditioner. Putting raw tap water into a tank (that has chloramines, and/or chlorine and/or heavy metals etc) will not allow the bacteria to form hence the tank would not cycle. Conditioners/dechlorinators will NOT interfere with the cycling process.

 

[Zaedon]

Chlorine will dissipate naturally in 24 hours. Chloramine is a bit tougher but after a week will present little or no threat. Heavy metal in common water is not common as PH levels are kept high enough to prevent corrosion of copper piping preventing copper from building up in water ( Don't worry about other metals as if present they will be next to nil). Using Prime like most conditioners will in fact give false ammonia readings. To acurrately measure your ammonia levels when using conditioners you would need to test for NH3 ( free ammonia ) and NH4 ( ionized ammonia ).

In other words, you don't need a conditioner. However, I would use a chlorine/chloramine remover just to speed things along.

Also chloramine is a combination of chlorine and ammonia, so yea, it will cycle even with chloramine. just an fyi.

Also, don't lump all conditioners and dechlorinators into one group. They can be very different, and yes even prevent or impair the nitrogen cycle

 

[jlk]

Sorry, but I have to disagree as well. Yes, chlorine will dissipate if the water is allowed to sit out for 24hrs or longer. However, adding chlorinated water to a cycled or uncycled tank will effectively kill the good bacteria that one is trying to maintain or proprogate as well as sicken any fish that may be in the tank. Thus , the need for a water conditioner.

Chloramine is a different story. You can let water treated with chloramine sit for 24hrs or 24 days or 24 years and it will not dissipate. The chemical bond between chlorine and ammonia has to be broken in order for the chlorine to dissipate. The bond can only be broken via the use of a chemical to break it. Thus, once again, the need for a water conditioner.

In respect to heavy metals in the water, they are numerous and it does not matter what your ph is. If you care to check the water report for your municipality or for your well, you may be shocked to see what is actually in your water. Once again, a water conditioner will help bind them limiting their toxicity to fish.

I dont know of any water conditioners/dechlorinators that 'impair or prevent' a cycle. The only product that is possibiliy an exception is a product such as 'ammonia-lock' which is not classified as a water conditioning/dechlorinating product. Please be careful of what you are advising to someone who is trying to learn how to take care of their fish properly.

 

[Fishy Aston]

Hello!

So the only thing I've actually gotten so far is the tank(36G bowfront if it matters?) and stand, but i've been researching the other bits and pieces I will need. During the research i've developed a few questions that i'm hoping to get answers to ^_^. My main questions are below, but I will continue to look about the forum and edit if I find an answer prior to anyone replying.

First, for a filter I plan on getting a Fluval C4 Power Filter. While perusing the forums and googling to my hearts content i've noticed alot of people stating that using the replacable carbon filters is generally a very bad idea. My question is why is this and what should I use instead?

A normal filter should be fine with a sponge in it.

Second, I plan on doing a fishless cycling of my tank but have read that you need to "seed" the new tank with good bacteria from an already established tank via gravel or decorations and such for this to work. Would a liquid bacteria additive work for this(like API Stress Zyme? I don't feel comfortable adding something like that though.) or do I really need to find someone with a well established tank instead?
Nope that is not true , if you want to do a fishless cycle then you need to go to the LFS and buy a bottle of ammonia and put some of that in. You should buy a Api Master Test Kit. That will tell you when your cycle is complete.
Third, Water conditioners. Which should I use??!? There are so so sooooo many out there and no real information(that I could find) to help point out which is better than the others or even if there is one better.
None is really better than the other whichever is mid priced.

My final question(for now ^_~). Does it matter to the fish what type of lighting I use?(I do not plan on having live plants but want to make sure I get anything the fish may need.) I planned on getting a Coralife 50/50 bulb, but am wondering if I should be looking at specific types of bulbs instead(even googling I had trouble finding any real information on this topic).

Nope not a problem usually you get a special light in the hood of the tank do you have a lid for the tank? But no it doesnt matter what light you get. Too much lighting could increase the amount of algea though so maybe getting a timer so 10 hours of light on and 12 hours of light of? Maybe that would help you.

in advance for any help you guys can offer.
No problem at all that is what AA is all about! In return you can help and others with our questions as you get more experienced

Cieno

Hope it helped
Aston

 

[Cieno]

Thanks everyone for the replies, it's clear I made the right decision joining this forum ^_^

 

[Zaedon]

Chloramine is a different story. You can let water treated with chloramine sit for 24hrs or 24 days or 24 years and it will not dissipate. The chemical bond between chlorine and ammonia has to be broken in order for the chlorine to dissipate. The bond can only be broken via the use of a chemical to break it. Thus, once again, the need for a water conditioner.

Nice to see all the chemist come out of the wood work and state regurgitated mistruths as fact. Here is some info on chloramines aka Monochloramine. (some fun facts if you will ). Now I know some people are still going to stick to their guns and say things like. While I was talking to gas station attendant he said chloramine is indestructible, but I say to you seek out real answers from real scientist and you will find real answers.

Natural Degradation of Monochloramine (NH2Cl)
Three degradation equations for monochloramine that occur in any water system are shown
below. Note that in each case that the end product is either ammonia or the ammonium ion
that both contribute to nitrification.
Equation #1: Autodecomposition 3NH2Cl Æ N2 +NH3 +Cl -+ 3H
+
Equation #2: Oxidation of Organic Matter .1C5H7O2N + NH2Cl + .9H20 Æ
.4CO2 + .1HCO3
-
+1.1 NH4
-
+ Cl
-
Equation #3: Reduction by Nitrite NH2Cl + NO2
-
+H20 Æ NH3 + NO3
-
+ HCl
All of these forms of degradation of monochloramine are exacerbated by long detention
times such as in dead-end pipes or in storage tanks. Most water system operators do not know
the residence times in their distribution systems. Studies have found that many average size
water distribution systems have residence times that exceed 12 days in some places. In some
smaller systems residence times as high as 24 days are not uncommon. These residence times
are more than adequate to favor monochloramine degradation.
Since the mechanisms of the degradation of chloramine are well known, it is
recommended that water distribution systems maintain a 2.5 mg/l level in stagnant areas
of the distribution system to avoid the problems discussed above. When 2.5 mg/l of
monochloramine is maintained it has been found to significantly impede nitrification.

Here is a link to the source.http://www.frwa.net/Manuals/Understanding%20Chloramines%20edit.pdf

You can verify this at your local community college or University. Or just sit a bucket of water in a corner somewhere and check for chloramine in a week or two.

If this offends the web reading wizards that pretend they know it all I apologize in advance. I also would ask that you do your homework before you insist on talking down to someone in a demeaning way as to suggest that we are trying to give some one bad advice.

chloramine = chlorine and ammonia, if left to its own devices it will return to such. At which point the chlorine will gas out and the ammonia will cycle just as it should.

I am in no way saying these fine folks are giving you bad advice. In fact, they are giving you great advice that you would do well to follow.