LyndaB
Aquarium Advice Addict
Maybe she's rinsing off the mop in your tank..... 
Struggling with first fishless cycle
- Thread starter Ponch
- Start date
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picture_117
Aquarium Advice FINatic
LyndaB said:Maybe she's rinsing off the mop in your tank.....
LOL this would be hilarious.
UPDATE
Since last measurements on 10/10
10/11 - 10/13 Are as follows
Ammo - 3.0
Ph - 7.8
Ni - 0
Na - 0
It's been six complete days since I added seed material to my filter (gravel from LFS tank) and still no changes in ammo or trites and trates. I'm losing hope and considering starting over.
Question is, if i start over on the premise that some contaminent got into the tank from possibly the cleaning lady how far back should i go? 100% water change or do I also need to take all the decorations and equipment out and scrub them clean as well?
Thx.
Since last measurements on 10/10
10/11 - 10/13 Are as follows
Ammo - 3.0
Ph - 7.8
Ni - 0
Na - 0
It's been six complete days since I added seed material to my filter (gravel from LFS tank) and still no changes in ammo or trites and trates. I'm losing hope and considering starting over.
Question is, if i start over on the premise that some contaminent got into the tank from possibly the cleaning lady how far back should i go? 100% water change or do I also need to take all the decorations and equipment out and scrub them clean as well?
Thx.
LyndaB
Aquarium Advice Addict
I would do 50% water changes, maybe 2 per day, until you get those numbers more favorable.
Do you have the option of bringing a sample to a reputable lfs to have them test to see how close your readings are to theirs? Might be worth it. I did it once just to confirm our test kit.
Do you have the option of bringing a sample to a reputable lfs to have them test to see how close your readings are to theirs? Might be worth it. I did it once just to confirm our test kit.
librarygirl
Look It Up
Something is definitely off here.
I'd be safe and clean out everything in the tank (just don't rinse the filter media off in tap water or it'll kill any bacteria you might have on there, and keep it wet while you're cleaning everything else).
A while back Eco mentioned products like R/O Rite, which basicaly adds minerals to your water. The products are mostly used by saltwater aquarists who use stripped R/O (reverse osmosis) water in their tanks. After the issue I had with my tank (Eco mentioned it earlier) I switched to spring water and my tank cycled very fast. Now, I'm back to tap water but I add R/O Rite with water changes just in case my water is lacking some minerals. You might give it a try since we've looked at everything else (I'd also drain and strip the tank too and wash everything just to be safe). Does your tank have a hood/lid?
I'd be safe and clean out everything in the tank (just don't rinse the filter media off in tap water or it'll kill any bacteria you might have on there, and keep it wet while you're cleaning everything else).
A while back Eco mentioned products like R/O Rite, which basicaly adds minerals to your water. The products are mostly used by saltwater aquarists who use stripped R/O (reverse osmosis) water in their tanks. After the issue I had with my tank (Eco mentioned it earlier) I switched to spring water and my tank cycled very fast. Now, I'm back to tap water but I add R/O Rite with water changes just in case my water is lacking some minerals. You might give it a try since we've looked at everything else (I'd also drain and strip the tank too and wash everything just to be safe). Does your tank have a hood/lid?
librarygirl
Look It Up
I know the AngelsPlus people are very good at what they do and I'm pretty sure they keep their snails separate from their fish tanks. Either way I've gotten 2 seeded filters from them and have never had an issue with snails or other parasites. Others on here have used them too. I'd say go for it. Just make sure it says "active" next to the one you buy or else you're just buying a plain un-seeded filter.
Spring water is a pain to use for water changes, trust me. If you can avoid it, I would. I'd try the R/O Rite with your tap water and the seeded filter and see if anything changes.
just placed order for KEnt's R/O right and plain filter media. did a 90% pwc yesterday too. Will keep tabs on this and let all know. IF there is no drop in ammo (currently at 0.5ppm)by the time the RO right arrives i will do a full drain/rinse and start afresh.
Hey all - whats the best dosage of R/O rite for supplementing my tap water in a 5 gallon tank? Seems like the dosages vary from 1-4 tsp based on type of fish in the tank but since I have none - am fishless cycling - wondering what's the recommended amount? I'm thinking 4 but would love to get some advice. Thanks.
Tonights event - drain and rinsed whole 5 gallon set-up - details...
-removed and placed existing carbon filter in cup of tankwater
-vacuumed water out
- scrubbed heater, 2 rocks and removed plastic orange plant which I've never trusted
-put 5 gallon tank in sink and rinsed it and the gravel super thorough with hot water
-refilled with dechlorinated tap water and reinserted all tank items
-inserted self cut blue pad filter to start over with no carbon
-added white padding from previous carbon filter as well as the LFS gravel j was using as seed in filter compartment previously
-turn everything on
-ran ammo test and scored perfect 0ppm
Because I'm paranoid I'm going to wait til morning to put the ammo drops in so I can run another ammo test (concerned the old filter media might carry some). Also thinking of waiting a couple of weeks before dropping in the r/o rite because after some serious retrospective thinking and reading some of librarygirls comments i may have inadvertently contaminated the tank with some medicine on my hands. Ha. Can't be too careful I guess.
-removed and placed existing carbon filter in cup of tankwater
-vacuumed water out
- scrubbed heater, 2 rocks and removed plastic orange plant which I've never trusted
-put 5 gallon tank in sink and rinsed it and the gravel super thorough with hot water
-refilled with dechlorinated tap water and reinserted all tank items
-inserted self cut blue pad filter to start over with no carbon
-added white padding from previous carbon filter as well as the LFS gravel j was using as seed in filter compartment previously
-turn everything on
-ran ammo test and scored perfect 0ppm
Because I'm paranoid I'm going to wait til morning to put the ammo drops in so I can run another ammo test (concerned the old filter media might carry some). Also thinking of waiting a couple of weeks before dropping in the r/o rite because after some serious retrospective thinking and reading some of librarygirls comments i may have inadvertently contaminated the tank with some medicine on my hands. Ha. Can't be too careful I guess.
Ponch said:
You should be using a bio booster, and there is no need to order when there are a number of quality products at your lfs. Unfortunately it seems there is a mentality amongst 'some' here that these are harmful and it is based on very anecdotal research they are trying to tout as science. Seachem stability can help to speed up your tank cycling process immensely and has been used safely by many aquarists for many years.
eco23
Aquarium Advice Addict
Shane83 said:
I'm not gonna get into it here...but "anecdotal research" is not remotely close to a correct statement.
To put it simply...FW home aquaria and a "cycled" tank contains two types of nitrifying bacteria, Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira (formally thought to be Nitrobacter). Seachem Stability (and virtually all other brands with the exception of a few) contains neither of those strains of bacteria. If you read the peer reviewed, cited articles in the thread I linked to you previously...by Seachem's own admission it does not contain those forms of beneficial bacteria. The articles I linked also show how Stability works by basically battling toxins while the true nitrifiers establish themselves (while in direct competition with the heterotrophs).
I don't necessarily have issues with bacteria supplements...but at the very least use a brand like Dr. Tim's O & O, or Tetra SafeStart which contain Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira. Even better, use an AngelsPlus sponge filter which comes from an established aquarium with heavy portions of the correct BB.
It should be difficult for you to dispute our cited, referenced and researched "science" without providing any opposing evidence to the contrary.
Here's a simple statement which shows how there are flaws in Stability (thanks to another member for pointing this out to me)...Seachem Stability is supposedly usable in both SW and FW aquaria...even the most novice of hobbyists who have any degree of knowledge regarding the nitrogen cycle in aquariums know there are entirely different types of beneficial bacteria in freshwater vs marine systems. So how are their bottled bacterias able to handle every aspect? Either they don't, or Seachem is in line for a Nobel Prize (which I haven't seen them nominated for).
Don't get me wrong, I love Seachem and wish I could support Stability. I use Prime, Matrix, Flourish, their Root Tabs and Excel...if Stability lined up in a way that it truly established a natural, stable bio-filter, I'd happily advise it to everyone. But it doesn't (again, by their own admission and explanation...read the articles in the thread).
This is the last I'll say on this topic on this thread...everything has been said and cited before in countless other threads. However, I simply ask that if you want to dispute the information / articles / science / facts that I and others have provided...please provide any evidence to the contrary other than just saying "it's been used safetly".
Last edited:
eco23 said:
Actually I believe seachem's admission is that it contains a synergistic blend of aerobic, anaerobic, and facultative bacteria which facilitate the breakdown of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Your link provided me with access to a number of forums, which would make this info... Yes... Anecdotal. Several companies including seachem will not reveal to you or anyone their specific 'recipe' of bacteria cultures used, however if for no other reason than you are unable to conclusively prove that hetertrophic bacteria will consistently supercede and inhibit the growth of the true autotrophic 'bacterias' without hard scientific evidence then most of your argument falls flat on it's face. My 'research' comes from over 400 successfully cycled tanks. Although I detest this kind of argument between fish keepers on principle, I have worked and managed lfs for 5 years and have set up countless tanks and used stability successfully on sump systems containing over 50 tanks with huge bio loads. It is obviously each individuals choice what they choose to use but I think it is irresponsible to convince people that quality products are dangerous, when if used correctly can greatly assist new tank owners. I also don't think you are qualified to make a statement that stability does not contain this range of bacteria, since several types of bacteria have a wide tolerance for salinity levels, also. You are also alluding to the fact that you are aware of the true bacterias involved in both fresh and saltwater, when these are varied and numerous and research even now, is ongoing, into the specific types and ranges of bacteria that contribute to nitrification. I understand that many fish 'experts' like to cram their opinion down the throats of others but this is counter productive and ultimately makes the hobby harder than it needs to be. I will not argue this point with you further, just ask that you ask people to do their own research rather than making a blanket statement that all bio boosters are bad. For every 1 loud mouthed person that has had a tank crash that may or may not be attributed to a bio booster you will have 100 people that have used the product successfully.
librarygirl
Look It Up
I would say a 1/2 teaspoon at most. The directions say the dosages are for 10 gals, and the lower of the two are 1/2 tsp - 1 tsp. So I'd go with a half tsp for the whole tank.
UPDATE - 7 days since tank drain/do-over
i *THINK* its working!
Kept the same filter media from my previous attempt at fishless cycling (which included some lfs seed gravel) but pretty much started over with all else.
10/23
- 18 drops ammonia (5gallon tank)
- 2-3 ppm amo
- 0 nitrates
- 7.6 ph
10/25
- 3 ppm amo
- no test nitrates
- 7.6 ph
10/27
- 3 ppm amo
- 0 nitrates
- no test ph
10/30
- 2 ppm amo!!!
- no test nitrates
- 7.6 ph
I actually got a 2ppm reading on 10/29 as well but being skeptical didn't believe it until I saw it two days in a row. I think it may be starting to happen for me.
Also I decided not to use the Kent's RO rite when I started over even though I have a full bottle - decision mostly based on hypothesis that I actually did accidentally contaminate my tank last time. Thought is I can always add if a couple weeks go by with no further progress ... But really want to know if the added step of adding this stuff with all future water changes is really necessary.
There is usually a lag bw time ammo starts dropping and time nitrites start showing up, right?
Thanks all - will keep you posted!
i *THINK* its working!
Kept the same filter media from my previous attempt at fishless cycling (which included some lfs seed gravel) but pretty much started over with all else.
10/23
- 18 drops ammonia (5gallon tank)
- 2-3 ppm amo
- 0 nitrates
- 7.6 ph
10/25
- 3 ppm amo
- no test nitrates
- 7.6 ph
10/27
- 3 ppm amo
- 0 nitrates
- no test ph
10/30
- 2 ppm amo!!!
- no test nitrates
- 7.6 ph
I actually got a 2ppm reading on 10/29 as well but being skeptical didn't believe it until I saw it two days in a row. I think it may be starting to happen for me.
Also I decided not to use the Kent's RO rite when I started over even though I have a full bottle - decision mostly based on hypothesis that I actually did accidentally contaminate my tank last time. Thought is I can always add if a couple weeks go by with no further progress ... But really want to know if the added step of adding this stuff with all future water changes is really necessary.
There is usually a lag bw time ammo starts dropping and time nitrites start showing up, right?
Thanks all - will keep you posted!
librarygirl
Look It Up
Yes, there's usually a lag-time between ammonia dropping and nitrites showing. Are you testing nitrite or just nitrate? I didn't see the nitrite results in your tests above. Ammonia is dropping so that's a good thing. Good luck!
librarygirl said:
Thanks librarygirl-Good to hear there is a lag between the two. I apparently mis-posted earlier; the tests I ran were actually for nitrites, not nitrates. I can't believe ammonia beginning to drop in just 7 days. My expectations were set kinda low after 40+ days of inactivity last time. Will post another update again next weekend - hopefully with some test results showing nitrites
14 day since do-over - no nitrites
over the past week I have tested every few days and seen ammo touch about 1.5ppm and hover b/w that # and 2ppm. I still have no nitrites to report after another 7 days of testing and waiting though. *sigh* starting to lose hope and patience. I'm at the verge of two paths I can go down:
1) stick it out another week and see if ammo drops further and nitrites show up naturally
2) add the kents R/O rite to the water now and see if it helps
I'm leaning towrds option #2 since prior to the tank drain/rinse do-over I had about 40 days of nothing and worried this is going to be more of the same. I want to get fish this year!!! Let me know thoughts/recos please!!
over the past week I have tested every few days and seen ammo touch about 1.5ppm and hover b/w that # and 2ppm. I still have no nitrites to report after another 7 days of testing and waiting though. *sigh* starting to lose hope and patience. I'm at the verge of two paths I can go down:
1) stick it out another week and see if ammo drops further and nitrites show up naturally
2) add the kents R/O rite to the water now and see if it helps
I'm leaning towrds option #2 since prior to the tank drain/rinse do-over I had about 40 days of nothing and worried this is going to be more of the same. I want to get fish this year!!! Let me know thoughts/recos please!!
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