Struggling with first fishless cycle

[jlk]

Ah-ha!!! Though its very strange your tap dropped that much! Lets do some pwcs to try & get your tanks ph has high as your tap is. Dose amm to just 2ppm. Then lets see tommorrow how your tap & tanks ph look. If it looks like this is going to be the new ph (@6.6), you may have to get some crushed coral & mesh bag to add to your filter to help keep it a bit higher. 6.5 is right around where nitrification slows down signifigantly (or stops) & your bacteria are used to a much higher ph. Do a ph test on your tap as well tonight-let some tap sit for @24hrs with a bubbler or airstone (if you have an extra somewhere) then check it tommorrow to see what it reads. If you dont have a bubbler/airstone, then just give it a good stir whenever you remember to do so.Lets see how things look tommorrow!

 

[librarygirl]

It does look like ph has dropped. Previously (last few months) it has consistently been 7.6-7.8 range so I basically stopped testing that daily. Just tested now and it's a 6.0! Very strange. Tested my tap water as well and it's a 6.6 which is significantly lower than in the past. Assuming 6.6 ph is the new norm for my tap water it still looks like its low. Is a water change the best course of action here with some further testing to see where it lands?

A PH of 6 can definitely stall the cycle which is why conversion dropped. I'd do a 100% water change to try to get PH back up. If it keeps dropping you may need to try adding some crushed coral or crushed argonite to the filter to buffer the water.

 

[Ponch]

Alright - sounds good guys. Thanks for the advice. I'll do a 100% water change today and set aside some tap overnight and test both again tomorrow.

Boy there's nothing easy about this hobby!

Stay tuned for results tomorrow!!

 

[Ponch]

UPDATE

Yesterday
-100% water change
-dosed to 2ppm ammo
-set tap water aside for baseline testing today

Today
-tank test results
Ammo 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20ppm
PH 7.2
-Tap water PH after sitting overnight is about 7.6

So it appears the chemistry of the tank lowers the PH of the water by 4/10ths of a point in about 16 hours. Any idea why this might be?

Once I add fish (which i now think is again possible to do today) I will do full testing on a daily basis indefinitely to stay on top of any fluctuations. I'm sure there's a pattern that will develop which I will learn and can then manage.

Any additional thoughts on this are welcome. Thx!

 

[librarygirl]

UPDATE

Yesterday
-100% water change
-dosed to 2ppm ammo
-set tap water aside for baseline testing today

Today
-tank test results
Ammo 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20ppm
PH 7.2
-Tap water PH after sitting overnight is about 7.6

So it appears the chemistry of the tank lowers the PH of the water by 4/10ths of a point in about 16 hours. Any idea why this might be?

Once I add fish (which i now think is again possible to do today) I will do full testing on a daily basis indefinitely to stay on top of any fluctuations. I'm sure there's a pattern that will develop which I will learn and can then manage.

Any additional thoughts on this are welcome. Thx!

Looks good! Have you seen any ammonia or nitrite at the 24 hour mark after dosing since Dec. 3 (from your post on the previous page)? If not I'd agree you can start adding some fish. What size tank again and what fish are you thinking of getting?

Cycling can wreak havoc with the PH so that's normal. If it doesn't stabilize once you have fish I'd suggest adding a few pinches of crushed coral or crushed argonite (sold at most pet/fish stores in the saltwater section; they only sell larger bags though which will last you forever lol) in your filter. Put it into a mesh media bag or clean nylon stocking and add it to your filter. Not a lot, a few pinches should suffice to start with. It'll help keep your water buffered and the PH stable. If the PH rises too high, over what your tap water is, then take some out; if it's still dropping, add a pinch more, etc and keep testing until it's stable.

Good luck! Don't forget to do a large water change before you get fish to get those nitrates down; you want them as low as you can get them. Also do a YouTube search for 'drip acclimation;' it's the best way to acclimate fish to a new tank.

 

[jlk]

YAY!!! Ph drops are common during cycling so hopefully things will stablize over time (just keep an eye on everything). As Librarygirl suggested, a small amount of cr coral may be needed if you start to see see your ph dropping. I would just consider stocking slowly & keeping a close watch on everything. Just follow Librarygirls excellent recommendations for a big pwc to get your nitrates as close to zero as possible & to follow drip acclimation method for your new fish & you should be good!!! Congrats!!!!

 

[Ponch]

Library girl, JLK and all others who've helped: Thanks for everything!!! With your guidance I've been able to finally fish-less cycle my tank and today add fish to my 5 gallon.

Some quick answers to questions just asked:

-Since 12/3 (with the exception of the short time period PH dropped last week) I've been able to consistently get added ammonia levels to 0ppm within 24hrs

-tank is a 5 gallon bow front with a hood

-I've just dded (drip acclimated) 6 neon tetras and 2 baby mollies. I know that most would consider this overstocked, but the LFS owner confidently told me it's not about how many fish in a given aquarium size, but about making sure that I don't over feed, having a strong bio-filter and keeping the nitrate levels low. If all that is in order than I can probably add even a few more small fish to the 8 i have now. Does this sound reasonable? It did to me despite the 1" of fish per gallon of water rule of thumb/convention/etc (which he told me to ignore).


I'll take some more pics to share as things get settled over here ... And keep on watching the water chemistry. It's been a long but fun ride. Finally the big reward (fish!) is here. Thanks again everyone.

 

[librarygirl]

Yikes! I'm sorry to say but those are rather poor choices for a 5 gal.

Even though Neons are small they are very active swimmers and need more horizontal swim space than a 5 gal can provide them. Also Mollys aren't at all suitable for a 5 gal as they can grow too large and have large bioloads. Right now you're about 150% overstocked I'd say. I've learned early on not to trust the LFS's advice; they mostly want to make a sale.

I'd strongly recommend returning those fish and getting suitable fish for a 5 gal. 5 gal tanks limit your options; the only fish suitable would be either a single Betta or some nano fish like ember tetra, celestial pearl danio or chili rasbora, or maybe some endler's livebears.

If you want to keep the fish you have now I'd highly recommend upgrading to at least a 20 gal very soon before the Mollys grow much larger. I'd keep a close eye on your parameters as well and I would NOT add any more fish until you either upgrade your tank or return the fish you have and stock appropriately for a 5 gal. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[Ponch]

I'm in the process of negotiating a tank upgrade with the Mrs. Aiming for Christmas.

That said, water parameters have been looking quite good... No ammo or nitrites in the first week. Nitrates have been rising to 40ppm pretty quickly though ... So I've had to do 2 pwc's this week already to get them much lower. 2/wk is not sustainable for me so it gives me more reason to upgrade to a bigger aquarium. Looking for a deal on a 36 gallon corner bowfront to keep it as space efficient (for us and the fish) as possible. Imagine that'd give the neons enough horizontal swim room and the mollies plenty of space to grow into.

Does anyone know a reputable online aquarium seller that would carry a specialty tank like this at a reasonable price?

Thinking of also posting to the AA classifieds about this.... Perhaps some other nearby member is looking to unload one...

 

[jlk]

Im glad things are looking good!!! The nitrates will rise quickly because of the small volume of water (as you are discovering). An upgrade sounds great though i cant recommend anybody (ive always gotten stuff used off of craigslist). Def try the classifieds here or post a question in the general discussion area for fw so you can get a better response!

 

[librarygirl]

Good for you, an upgrade would be great! You're doing a great job in the meantime. Try Craigslist in your area or Amazon.com or the classifieds on here. Or eBay? Corner bowfronts may be a bit expensive though unless you can find a used one.

 

[Ponch]

Good for you, an upgrade would be great! You're doing a great job in the meantime. Try Craigslist in your area or Amazon.com or the classifieds on here. Or eBay? Corner bowfronts may be a bit expensive though unless you can find a used one.

So today I brought home a 26 gallon bowfront (not the corner style) and tonight have begun a quest to fishless cycle this 2nd tank I'm cautiously optimistic now that I can seed the new filter with media from my cycled 5gallon. May need start a new thread!

 

[librarygirl]

So today I brought home a 26 gallon bowfront (not the corner style) and tonight have begun a quest to fishless cycle this 2nd tank I'm cautiously optimistic now that I can seed the new filter with media from my cycled 5gallon. May need start a new thread!

Awesome, congrats! What you could do is just move all of the media over from the 5 gal to the new filter and then fill in the rest of the space with new media and move all of the fish over. You may or may not get a toxin spike; I wouldn't think so since the bioload is the same as long as you don't add more fish right away but just continue to test daily and do water changes if needed. I think you'd be fine just moving everything over without having to cycle the tank separately. Pics when you get everything set up!

 

[jlk]

Congrats on the new tank!! Let us know if you need some help! Merry Christmas!

 

[Ponch]

Thanks Library and JLK! Going to set this new one up a bit slower and get it just right Pics soon and Merry Christmas to you both!

 

[fonejacker]

Just starting my first fishless cycle, have dosed the tank to 5.0ppm, seeded the tank with filter media, added a microscopic amount of flake and left in the dark.

The ammonia level has remained for the past three days? Is that normal?

 

[Hholly]

Just starting my first fishless cycle, have dosed the tank to 5.0ppm, seeded the tank with filter media, added a microscopic amount of flake and left in the dark.

The ammonia level has remained for the past three days? Is that normal?

5 ppm may be a tad too high. 4 is usually the recommended amount. But either way, it takes some time for the ammonia to start decreasing, even with seed material. Give it a little more time.

 

[jlk]

+1
I agree. Lets give the bacteria some time to colonize. Alot of patience is needed when you are cycling.

 

[Ukdans1k]

Hi, just an idea that I have used successfully when setting up a new tank. I used a mature filter to start but instead of filling the new tank up with fresh water I filled gradually using water from my mature tank. . Would take approx 10% every other day or so from my mature tank and put that in the new . No only did this really well, but as a result of the frequent water changes in my mature tank a few fish went into spawning mode!!!! Hope this helps ?

 

[jlk]

Hi, just an idea that I have used successfully when setting up a new tank. I used a mature filter to start but instead of filling the new tank up with fresh water I filled gradually using water from my mature tank. . Would take approx 10% every other day or so from my mature tank and put that in the new . No only did this really well, but as a result of the frequent water changes in my mature tank a few fish went into spawning mode!!!! Hope this helps ?

Isnt it amazing what LOTS of healthy water does?! Japenese/chinese breeders of goldfish practice 100% water changes daily to keep their fish in optimum health & breeding fitness.