Substrate question

[smn723]

Hey everyone! Well I was just about to order 8 bags of Eco-Complete on the good-old doctors site when I happened to stumble across this product while looking at their CO2 systems.

8O 8O 8O http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/ss-1.htm

Has anyone tried this substrate? Anyone know the pluses and minuses vs. Eco-Complete? This would save me a ton of money on my 75 gallon tank. Seems almost too good to be true...but they are great at growing some plants so feel that it would be a safe buy!?!? Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

 

[dapellegrini]

Rumor is that this is repackaged Lesco Soil Master Select or SMS for short. It is a clay-based substrate that will work well. I don't think it is quite as nice as ADA AquaSoil or Eco Complete, but probably as good as something like Flourite.

 

[smn723]

Awww!

Dang. I figured something of that nature. Too good to be true. However I have heard that ADA Aquasoil gets stirred up easily when planting and clouds up the water. So this wouldn't be a negative in that perspective correct? Just not as good of results with biological benefits with planting? I think I may just have to spend big and get Eco-Complete. That's what I was figuring on doing in the beginning but figured if I could save $70 or more that's always a plus.

 

[dapellegrini]

You will be happy with Eco. It is money well spent. Buy it on DrsFosterSmith.com and use the code DODGE at check out for another 15% off (hope this discount still works!).

 

[smn723]

The coupon code doesn't work. It was suppose to expire on the 7th or something like that and it worked for me up until the beginning of last week then they removed it. BUMMER!

EDIT***Doh!! Just went on there and I am eating my words. The code is working once again! Good call dapellegrini!

 

[neilanh]

You will be happy with the Eco, it's a very good substrate.

Don't rule out the schultz aqua soil, I've been very impressed with it too, and it's dirt cheap

 

[smn723]

Neilanh, does the shultz aqua soil cloud up the water at all? I can't find many reviews/information on this product. Thanks in advance.

 

[An t-iasg]

Yes, Shultz aqua soil is very cloudy at first.

 

[neilanh]

At first is the key.

I cheated (according to some) but here's what I did.

I filled the tank with a ton of it ( I wanted it deep, it's 6" in the back and 4.5" in the front). I filled with water and started up the HOB filter (AC50). The tank clouded over heavily, because I was being lazy and did not rinse it at all. Heres the "cheating" part. I dosed a single recommended dose of Seachem Clarity water clarifier. 5 hours later, I changed the filter in the HOB, the water was crystal clear, and I have not had a single recloud of the tank through multiple replantings.

I like eco, I have it as well. And I like that the eco is black. But, the color of the schultz isn't bad IMO, I like it as well. The schultz also, IMO, grows plants just as well as the eco. The schultz is also a ton cheaper and readily available at local Lowes or Home Depot (no shipping!)

In my 20g with eco, I used 35 pounds of eco to get a 3" bed. In my 20 with Schultz, I used like 15 pounds of schultz to get that really deep sandbed. Since the schultz is a bit bigger granule, you obviously need less to get the depth. At $6 for 10 lbs on the schultz, it is significantly cheaper, and like I said grows just as well as eco IMO.

I currently have the schultz in a 20 high "growout" tank, and here's what it looks like

(Yes, I'm overdue for some serious trimming, but you can see the plants seem to like it and do well in it)

 

[Zezmo]

Here is some info on the Aquariumplants.com substrate.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?p=755854#755854

Bottom line, it does work well and looks good. However, it strips the Kh from the water, you will have a Kh of zero when using it.

 

[smn723]

Thanks Zezmo, neilanh, and an t-iasg. Zezmo, the whole KH removal is a little disheartening to me. I, like others, would worry about the stress on my fish...angelfish and also will be adding GBRs. Have you noticed a suffering in your plant growth? Do you possibly have Eco-Complete in another of your tanks (assuming you have MTS like most)? I just really like the deep black color of the Eco-Complete and it seems the Aquariumplants substrate might be a little lighter color. Am I wrong? I have used Eco-Complete before and was very impressed with the results. It's just a matter of weighing the tried and true vs. the economically priced.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Zezmo]

My mated pair of breeding Angels have been laying eggs about every 3 weeks since last December in the tank with aquariumplants.com substrate. Softwater is not an issue for them. They do just fine, the 0 Kh in not a problem in general, it is bouncing the Kh that would be an issue. I believe GBR's also like soft water, though I do not keep them myself. Btw, snails do not survive in this tank. Thier shells disolve.

As for ECO complete. That is a great substrate. I have been using it on a nano tank of mine for a couple years. That tank has grown nearly evey plant you can imagine, including several Eriocaulon's. It is currently set up as a breeding tank for a pair of Apistogramma viejita "red II". They love the ECO. The Apistogramma's (Earth Eater) are always digging around in the stuff.

 

[rkilling1]

I have Eco in two of my tanks and so far so good. The carpeting plants are doing great with it. The only negative so far is it made my water harder. I went from a GH of 4 to a GH of 10. Soft water plants don't do well in water that's not soft!

As far as the Aquariumplants.com substrate, removing all the KH shouldn't have any effect on your plants. KH is the buffering capacity of your water and is not representative of it's hardness. ie having a KH of zero does not mean you have soft water. Having no GH would not be good for the plants as they need Mg++ and Ca++ as do the fish. Granted having no buffering capacity is not good for the fish, but as long as you are regulating the pH with CO2, you will be fine.

 

[majolo]

Zezmo: what's your kH out of the tap?

 

[Zezmo]

This time of year about 8kh. Actually, My RO/DI unit has an inline TDS meter. But the Kh portion is as mentioned.

I hazzard to use the term soft water to describe Kh, for the reasons Rkilling mentioned. In the post above I was only talking the Carbonate Hardness. The Angel tank has no CO2, and get's topped off with RO/DI water. No shocking the fish. Before I dumped fish into a tank with the aquariumplants.com substrate I already was aware of the Kh stripping properties. I did some experiementing to verify this, and have taken precautions to deal with it since. I actually have used the stuff in 2 other aquariums. One is a guppy tank, the guppies breed like guppies do, has been going strong for over 6 months. The other, now taken down, was growing carnivorous plants.

I found the Gh boosting effects of the ECo to be short lived. Does your Gh continue to climb after the first year Rk?

 

[rkilling1]

I found the Gh boosting effects of the ECo to be short lived. Does your Gh continue to climb after the first year Rk?

It's only been around two months since I put it in the tanks, so I haven't seen it return to normal as of yet. I hope it doesn't take too long due to my Tonina sp. 'Belem' not liking the hardness at all.

 

[Purrbox]

Don't forget to consider Turface MVP when looking at good but inexpensive substrates. The main drawback is that it's a bit on the lightweight side. At $10 for 50lbs it's a great price.