Swim bladder? Fin rot?

[griffinej5]

This is a picture of the fish In question. I woke up this morning, and he was stuck to the filter intake. He appears to have some minor fin damage to his tail fin, but it doesn't seem like it should be enough to keep him from escaping the intake. He's swimming right now with his head slightly upward, and sometimes tilts to one side. I separated him from my other fish with a tank divider to keep him from getting sucked up or picked on. I'm wondering though if it might be swim bladder. He tends to constipated often, but was not fed this weekend.
I did a pwc last night, and I checked the levels myself and had them checked at petsmart. Ammo, nitrite and nitrate are 0, doing a ph test right now cause I forget from the this morning. It's slightly low but acceptable.
I have added melafix in addition to dividing him away from the filter. I suppose I can also pick up some peas when I go out again since that won't hurt either way.
Prior to getting this fish, which was in September, I did have one die from fin rot. The other fish has been in the tank throughout with no problems.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

This is a picture of the fish In question. I woke up this morning, and he was stuck to the filter intake. He appears to have some minor fin damage to his tail fin, but it doesn't seem like it should be enough to keep him from escaping the intake. He's swimming right now with his head slightly upward, and sometimes tilts to one side. I separated him from my other fish with a tank divider to keep him from getting sucked up or picked on. I'm wondering though if it might be swim bladder. He tends to constipated often, but was not fed this weekend.
I did a pwc last night, and I checked the levels myself and had them checked at petsmart. Ammo, nitrite and nitrate are 0, doing a ph test right now cause I forget from the this morning. It's slightly low but acceptable.
I have added melafix in addition to dividing him away from the filter. I suppose I can also pick up some peas when I go out again since that won't hurt either way.
Prior to getting this fish, which was in September, I did have one die from fin rot. The other fish has been in the tank throughout with no problems.

Hi,
How many fish in the tank and what are their sizes?
What size tank?
What kind of food are you feeding him?
How long has he been like this?
How long has the tank been running with fish?
Can you do the nitrate test again? I highly doubt that their is 0 nitrate in a goldfish tank.

 

[griffinej5]

It is 2 goldfish, the smaller of the two (the healthy one) is between 1.0-1.5 inches, and the other a little under 2 inches. It is a 20 gallon tank, with a marina s20 and a biowheel filter rated for 20 gallons. I'm feeding API goldfish pellets, occasionally some tetra goldfish flakes. The flakes are maybe once every two weeks at most that they get that. I feed each fish individually typically, because I am training them, so I know who gets what and how much. I first noticed an issue with him last night, he was slow. I time how long it takes them to approach the feeding wand when I train them. I stop working and feeding a particular fish if it doesn't approach quickly enough, otherwise when it has eaten a certain amount I cut them off. He's usually there within 5-10 seconds. It was fishless cycled, and I added the fish in early August.
I just checked my nitrates again, and it is 0. I did do a water change yesterday (I changed probably about 10%, my bucket is 5 gallons, and I took out about half a bucket full). The tank is lightly planted, maybe it is enough to take care of the nitrates. I have a few java ferns, and a bit of java moss.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

It is 2 goldfish, the smaller of the two (the healthy one) is between 1.0-1.5 inches, and the other a little under 2 inches. It is a 20 gallon tank, with a marina s20 and a biowheel filter rated for 20 gallons. I'm feeding API goldfish pellets, occasionally some tetra goldfish flakes. The flakes are maybe once every two weeks at most that they get that. I feed each fish individually typically, because I am training them, so I know who gets what and how much. I first noticed an issue with him last night, he was slow. I time how long it takes them to approach the feeding wand when I train them. I stop working and feeding a particular fish if it doesn't approach quickly enough, otherwise when it has eaten a certain amount I cut them off. He's usually there within 5-10 seconds. It was fishless cycled, and I added the fish in early August.
I just checked my nitrates again, and it is 0. I did do a water change yesterday (I changed probably about 10%, my bucket is 5 gallons, and I took out about half a bucket full). The tank is lightly planted, maybe it is enough to take care of the nitrates. I have a few java ferns, and a bit of java moss.

Sorry for all the questions, trying to get the full picture.
Are they both fancy goldfish? Or is the other a common, koi or commet?

A 20gal tank isn't big enough for two gf in the long run. 20g for the first and 10g for each fish thereafter. So for the two you have (assuming they are both fancies) you need a 30gal minimum.

Goldfish are very messy fish (poop a lot!) and need filtration 10 times the tank size. So a 20gal tank needs 200g/hour filtration.

Floating pellets and flakes aren't the best thing to feed fancies. They can gulp air while eating causing swim bladder issues. Try presoaking their food so it sinks. That will avoid the air gulping.

A 10% PWC (partial water change) a week isn't enough for a gf tank. You need to change 50% or more once or even twice a week. They are high waste producers so they foul a tank very quickly.

I'm still having doubts about your nitrate results. Only a very heavily planted tank will have 0 nitrates. What test kit are you using? Has it expired?

 

[griffinej5]

They are both the same type.
I tested twice and got 0, and that's what the girl got in petsmart, though she was using strips. I can try to get to one (or both) of the lfs tomorrow and get them to test it for me. The kit I have should be fine though, as I just bought it back in July when I set up my tank. I am pretty sure I checked it back then because I screwed up a test by miscounting the drops, and it was not anywhere near expiring.
I know that at some point I will need a larger tank. Right now I have maybe 4 inches worth of fish, but I will upgrade them.
They don't typically eat off the surface of the water. I have a wand, so they get the food below the water surface most of the time. I did feed them up at the top a few times last week, but I've done that before, so that alone shouldn't be the cause of a problem.

 

[jlk]

+1 Thanks Mumma!! Swimbladder issues are common in goldfish & usually are related to food issues. Flakes & floating pellets are not a wise choice. Sometimes, switching to a quality sinking food & adding daily cooked veggies (deshelled peas, broccoli, zucchini, spinach) are enough to alleviate the problem. I would try this first in addition to much larger pwcs (50% 1-2wk) and see how he does. Water quality issues can incite & aggravate swim bladder problems so keeping his water pristine will help as well. Upgrading their tank as soon as its feasible for you will prevent any growth-related issues from occurring. If a diet change doesnt help after a week or so, we can look at some other options.

 

[griffinej5]

I'm still not sure whether he's got fin rot, swim bladder problems, or both, but I suppose neither the Melafix nor some veggies will hurt them. I'm leaning more towards a swim bladder problem. He's pooping and it's sticking for a few minutes, and he hasn't eaten since Friday. It doesn't look like what the other fish had, but I swore I saw fin bits floating around the tank. Maybe that was because he was having a hard time swimming away from the filter because of a swim bladder problem was stuck there for maybe a few hours (they're in my room, I went to bed last night at 1 AM, he was not there, and some time around 9 I turned on the lights and he was there.
I took a video of him, so you could see how he is swimming, but it's taking forever to show up on my You Tube channel. Hopefully it shows up soon so I can link it and you can see exactly what he's doing.
I don't want to stress him too much by doing it, but do you think it would hurt if I can get to the LFS tomorrow, to take him with me and let someone there look at him?

 

[Mumma.of.two]

IMO your better off leaving him I'm his own tank. Don't want to stress him.

 

[jlk]

I agree with Mumma- taking him for a trip to lfs will only stress him further & exacerbate any problems he is having. Try feeding him only cooked plain veggies for a few days (no food-leave the veggies there for him to pick at when he wants & give him fresh ones every day) & see if this is enough to help his swim issues.

 

[griffinej5]

Not a super great video, but here he is swimming. I'll leave him home and take the dog with me. He'll be much happier to make the trip than the fish.

 

[jlk]

Is he able to swim to the bottom of the tank or does he pop up like a cork or flip over & float or swim upside down? From the video, he just looks listless & legarthic (perhaps a bit floaty) but i also cant tell where the video is being shot from (is he floating at the surface in the vid?).

 

[griffinej5]

Sorry, it's a camera phone video, that's the best I could do. He was at the surface there. I was about to say this morning that I had not seen him go to the bottom since I found him stuck to the filter intake, but he is going down again now. He looks to be moving a bit better today, but clearly still off. When he moves up or down, he seems to be more vertical (maybe even past vertical) than the other fish. He did flip once when he came up. He went completely vertical or past vertical on his way up. He almost looks like he's riding the currents, except there's really no current where he is (just that filter intake, which has a sponge on it, that you can see in the video). The outlet to that is just past where he is, wouldn't move him how he's moving, and isn't really strong enough to create anything through the divider. They do ride the currents, but they are obviously in control of it then, and choose to swim in and out as they like. He's going towards that outlet, and sort of rests in the little bit of space between the tank wall and the edge of the divider (b/c I didn't get it straight there is a tiny gap). He seems to not be doing that so much this morning though. That was more so last night.

 

[Robert123]

He doesnt look very happy. I dont think its fin rot. Could be a swim bladder. Or it could just be an unhappy fish

 

[jlk]

Thanks for the info! Lets stick to the plain cooked veggies for a few days & more frequent pwcs & see how he does. I would also look into a quality sinking goldfish food (hikari or nls). You should try to incoporate some veggies into both of your guys everyday meals in the future to help limit swim bladder issues. Do you have an additional source of aeration in your tank (airstones, bubblers)? If not, your goldfish would appreciate them due to their high oxygen needs. Let us know how hes doing in few days!

 

[griffinej5]

I have a bubble wand in there. I let him back out in the whole tank, but he's sectioned back in an empty spot again. I found him trapped under the driftwood just now when I got up. I don't think he ate the peas. I'm on my way out, but do far he looks worse than yesterday.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Get some lightly blanched broccoli and leave it in there for him for a day. It may take a while for him to recognize it as food but he'll figure it out soon.

 

[jlk]

Your second option is to feed him metronizadole medicated foods (such as metromeds but there are other brands) which treat internal bacterial & parasitic infections. Follow the directions exactly & make sure he eats the full dose of food for the full course of treatment. Unfortunately, goldfish are prone to swimbladder issues (genetics/breeding practices/body shape). If treatment along with veggies doesnt work, you will have to decide on his quality of life & how you want to approach it. Hopefully, treatment & veggies will work!

 

[griffinej5]

This is now his typical body position when not wedged in against the divider. I don't think he's recognizing the veggies as food, or can't get down to get them, though I am pretty sure he's been down there. The other one is going to town on them. Is the medicated food or medication something I could just pick up in Petsmart, or do I need to go to the fish store?

 

[jlk]

I believe petsmart carries a brand of med food named 'Jungle anti-parasite'- check the ingredients & look for metronizadole. If not, you will have to check your lfs for a metro medicated food (such as metromeds). They are on amazon as well but you would have to wait for them to be shipped.

 

[Dwohlge1]

I'm sorry but I don't if I missed it but how long has your tank been up and running and what is your ammonia and nitrite levels?

You have 2 fish? How is the other fish?