Swim bladder problems with ryukin goldfish

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Sharpchick

Aquarium Advice FINatic
Joined
Jan 13, 2013
Messages
715
Location
Arkansas
First, the stats on the tank:
29 gallon high, planted with anubias, java fern, crypt, assorted hygrophilas, and floating pennywort
2 ryukins, body length about 3 inches for one, 2 1/2 inches for the other
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites -0
Nitrates - 0
pH - 6.8

Feeding repashy soilent green as staple diet, supplemented with squash (yellow and zucchini), spinach, peas, oranges, bananas and grapefruit. The fish also snack on the pennywort and hygros, and probably once a week, I also give them frozen bloodworms.

Last water change was yesterday - water chemistry before water change was ammonia - .25 ppm; nitrites - 0; nitrates - 0; pH - 6.8. This tank gets 3 50% water changes per week. I use Tetra Aqua Safe as my declorinator, and yesterday I also dosed the tank with 2.5 ml Seachem Fourish for the plants. This is a typical water change, except the Flourish only goes in for two of them.

History of this particular fish:
Gypsy has always tended to be floaty. When I first set up this tank and introduced both fish, I noticed pretty fast that Gypsy got floaty, and had a tendency to get up in one corner of the tank and smack. I could hear it in an adjacent room.

Gypsy's floatiness is the only reason there are frozen green peas in my freezer - I hate them. I also keep frozen spinach, but I eat that too.

I was initially feeding the fish Hikari Lionhead sinking pellets and Repashy solient green. As soon as I saw the first signs of floatiness, I ditched the pellets, even though I'd been soaking them for 20 minutes before feeding.

That seemed to fix it, and after running from veggies and fruits in the very beginning, both fish decided to chow down on them. (They get the day's offering on a veggie clip in the morning, which I remove when I get home from work in the evening. They get bananas or citrus on water change days.)

Last night, I heard it again. That smacking noise. I went over to the tank, and Gypsy was up in his favorite corner, eating air bubbles.

I thawed some spinach and both fish ate until they rejected any more. Gypsy eats from my hand, which I hold about 6 inches or so under the water. I never feed him from the surface.

When I got up this morning to feed, Gypsy was swimming just fine. I looked for poop, but if you've seen recent photos of my tank, you'll see that there are some planted areas where poop is hard to see.

I fed the repashy - dropped it from under the surface - and both of them chowed down. I put some zucchini on the veggie clip, and Gypsy started on it as soon as I moved my hand.

An hour ago, I walked over to the tank and saw this.

Gypsy on the way up
73133-albums11932-picture53409.jpg


Gypsy at the top
73133-albums11932-picture53410.jpg


He was really struggling to right himself. I thawed peas and spinach, caught him, and handfed him two half pieces of pea and a smidge of spinach. He didn't struggle, and swims into my hand when I do water changes.

It's an hour later now, and he seems to be swimming a little better (haven't seen any poop), but he's still surfacing and gulping air while he's up there.

Give me some suggestions, please.
 
Poor guy! Ok, did this come on all of a sudden or has it been gradually getting worse? I know you mention he has always had some floaty issues but has it worsened in the past 24hrs or the past week (or few weeks)? Have you ever treated these guys with prazi (full cycle or two)?

Ok, bad news it buoyancy issues in fancies are a horrible and common problem. There is no 'accepted' cure or treatment as the exact causes are are so varied. You can try epsom salt bathes as immediate intervention under the assumption its digestively related. Sometimes fish will respond with a course of metromeds or methylene blue bathes (in addition to epsom salt in the bath). A vet can provide a more accurate diagnosis in addition treatments as well as surgical intervention. I have seen fish with chronic issues respond very well by simply moving them outside to a pond environment. Another person I know swears by Jungle/Tetra fungus meds. Yet another is convinced that 'sunbathing' the sick fish daily does wonders (kind of goes along with the pond notion).
 
Poor guy! Ok, did this come on all of a sudden or has it been gradually getting worse? I know you mention he has always had some floaty issues but has it worsened in the past 24hrs or the past week (or few weeks)? Have you ever treated these guys with prazi (full cycle or two)?

Ok, bad news it buoyancy issues in fancies are a horrible and common problem. There is no 'accepted' cure or treatment as the exact causes are are so varied. You can try epsom salt bathes as immediate intervention under the assumption its digestively related. Sometimes fish will respond with a course of metromeds or methylene blue bathes (in addition to epsom salt in the bath). A vet can provide a more accurate diagnosis in addition treatments as well as surgical intervention. I have seen fish with chronic issues respond very well by simply moving them outside to a pond environment. Another person I know swears by Jungle/Tetra fungus meds. Yet another is convinced that 'sunbathing' the sick fish daily does wonders (kind of goes along with the pond notion).

No problems until I heard the smack! smack! noise last night.

It's been months since I switched them to repashy.

Turned my tank lights out a while ago and saw poop - not much of it, but he was going.

Dark green - the color of the repashy and the vegs he ate out of my hand. He was mostly upright, and more in control of his movements, but dang it!

Still eating bubbles.
 
Is he still floating?

My question was actually about prazi (praziquantel)- have you ever treated them for flukes? The repashy is great stuff but theres even goldies that can not handle it or out of the blue, can not deal with any longer. Kind of like people- not everyone can handle eating everything and some people are extremely sensitive foods or develop digestive issues later in life. I would start by only offering them veggies for the next couple of days. If he is still floaty right now, try an epsom salt bath.
 
No, not floaty right now. He has settled, rightside up, in his usual spot, although he startled and swam up when I approached the tank.

No, have not used prazi with them. I'll feed veggies only for the next couple of days.
 
Ok, let's see how he does over the next few days. He may need some further diet adjustments. I would recommend doing a cycle of prazi when everything settles. Please ask if you have any questions!
 
Ok, the best thing you could do is the following
Don't feed your fish completely for 2 days, then, only feed peas for 2 weeks, and after that, calm it down on the pellets, those are probably the cause of the swim bladder disease, hope this helps:)
 
Ok, the best thing you could do is the following
Don't feed your fish completely for 2 days, then, only feed peas for 2 weeks, and after that, calm it down on the pellets, those are probably the cause of the swim bladder disease, hope this helps:)
As I mentioned above, I stopped the pellets very early on. They haven't had pellets for months.
 
Ok, let's see how he does over the next few days. He may need some further diet adjustments. I would recommend doing a cycle of prazi when everything settles. Please ask if you have any questions!

Thanks a bunch for holding my hand today.
 
Well, all you can do is wait, in the most severe cases of bladder disease, the fish will live
Ike that for a year, hopefully your fish will be ok within maybe a month, just keep feeding him veggies and he should be ok, good luck:)
 
Poor Gypsy.......I hope he gets feeling better, he looks so much like my lil ryukin, Ollie.
Questions though, what is this Repashy you feed? I am feeding sinking pellets to Ollie, and veggies, but have really been considering upgrading to a higher quality food. My problem is Ollie lives in a coldwater community tank with 2 dojo loaches and a school of white cloud mountain minnows. I do not feed flakes at all in this tank, just sinking tropical crumbles,and goldie pellets, and veggies clipped well below water level. Ollie eats his pellets and also the sinking tropical crumbles. I am hoping to find a good food that they can all eat, and know they are all getting the best nutrition.
 
Your having the same problem I'm having :( hope your ryukin gets better!

By chance has there been any stringy poop? If so maybe internal parasites. Thats what I suspect my ryukin has but meds havent helped so far.
 
Poor Gypsy.......I hope he gets feeling better, he looks so much like my lil ryukin, Ollie.
Questions though, what is this Repashy you feed? I am feeding sinking pellets to Ollie, and veggies, but have really been considering upgrading to a higher quality food. My problem is Ollie lives in a coldwater community tank with 2 dojo loaches and a school of white cloud mountain minnows. I do not feed flakes at all in this tank, just sinking tropical crumbles,and goldie pellets, and veggies clipped well below water level. Ollie eats his pellets and also the sinking tropical crumbles. I am hoping to find a good food that they can all eat, and know they are all getting the best nutrition.

Allen Repashy makes a gel food for all types of fish (and amphibians). A lot of fish owners have made their own gel food for years, but this is commercially available. You mix one part powder with three parts boiling water, wait until it sets, then cut it into the size cube you need to feed your fish. It keeps in the fridge for two weeks.

I buy it from Tasty Worms.
 
Your having the same problem I'm having :( hope your ryukin gets better!

By chance has there been any stringy poop? If so maybe internal parasites. Thats what I suspect my ryukin has but meds havent helped so far.

No stringy poop that I have seen. After I fed the peas and spinach yesterday afternoon, he did poop, but it was the color of what he had eaten and was small poops. A lot of them. I'll be turning on the tank lights in a few minutes and giving them veggies only today.
 
Aww, poor Gypsy!

I haven't had to deal with it yet so I don't have any advice but I'm sending good thoughts and vibes your way!
 
Aww, poor Gypsy!

I haven't had to deal with it yet so I don't have any advice but I'm sending good thoughts and vibes your way!

Gypsy was much improved this morning and was munching away on yellow squash when I left.

Will post pics later when I get home.

Am ordering some Prazi.
 
Poor guy! Ok, did this come on all of a sudden or has it been gradually getting worse? I know you mention he has always had some floaty issues but has it worsened in the past 24hrs or the past week (or few weeks)? Have you ever treated these guys with prazi (full cycle or two)?

Ok, bad news it buoyancy issues in fancies are a horrible and common problem. There is no 'accepted' cure or treatment as the exact causes are are so varied. You can try epsom salt bathes as immediate intervention under the assumption its digestively related. Sometimes fish will respond with a course of metromeds or methylene blue bathes (in addition to epsom salt in the bath). A vet can provide a more accurate diagnosis in addition treatments as well as surgical intervention. I have seen fish with chronic issues respond very well by simply moving them outside to a pond environment. Another person I know swears by Jungle/Tetra fungus meds. Yet another is convinced that 'sunbathing' the sick fish daily does wonders (kind of goes along with the pond notion).

Gypsy is swimming just fine now - no apparent bouyancy problems.

However, I did go ahead with your suggestion about getting some Prazi. I ordered it, and am waiting for delivery. I ordered 25 g, which is supposed to treat 2,500 gallons. (That seems overkill for a 29 gallon tank, but I'll also use it when I finish my pond build this spring.)

I have a question about dosing the tank.

According to what I am reading, 1 tablespoon treats 500 gallons.

So if I take that calculation on down for this tank, will 1/4 teaspoon be sufficient for 29 gallons?

And I can't let this tank go for 7 days without a water change, so do I need to dose again after a water change?
 
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