The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling

[FishShack]

Hello again,

The 20 gallon tank last night had a reading of ammo of .50 almost to 1.0ppm. I did a PWC and the ammo is down to 0ppm again, nitrite and nitrate are 0ppm, the PH remember before the PWC was like 5-6ppm, well after the PWC its now 6.8-7.0. All fish seems ok and doing well still. I guess the tank is still in cycle? It must of crashed to get that bad PH reading somehow?

The 55 gallon tank I got a reading of ammo of about 2-3ppm, I dosed it to 4ppm again, nitrite was 0ppm still and PH of 7.6. I started this cycle on 5/31. I have noticed that the water level is dropping and I have filled it back to the top and added prime. I hope that doesn't mess this up? It was down about a 1/2 inch. So it wasn't much. I think its down again so i will be adding water to it this evening and more prime. I will also be stopping by the store to pickup the CC today, its supposed to be in.

I am reading horror story's on the forum of people doing the fishless cycle and are now into months and it still not working, having bad thoughts that this wont work

FishShack

 

[FishShack]

Also just to double check I am using the MarineLand Bio Filter kit with the carbon filters, I know eco in the guide you explain your dislike but its what I have but I will make sure they are not changed out unless the proper steps are taken, for right now and probably not for a long time they wont be changed. Also this is the ammo I am using is this stuff ok? See link below.

Shop Red Max 64 Oz. Red Max Ammonia Clear Cleaner at Lowes.com

Are these items that I am using going to work with a fishless cycle?


FishShack

 

[eco23]

Hello again,

The 20 gallon tank last night had a reading of ammo of .50 almost to 1.0ppm. I did a PWC and the ammo is down to 0ppm again, nitrite and nitrate are 0ppm, the PH remember before the PWC was like 5-6ppm, well after the PWC its now 6.8-7.0. All fish seems ok and doing well still. I guess the tank is still in cycle? It must of crashed to get that bad PH reading somehow?

The 55 gallon tank I got a reading of ammo of about 2-3ppm, I dosed it to 4ppm again, nitrite was 0ppm still and PH of 7.6. I started this cycle on 5/31. I have noticed that the water level is dropping and I have filled it back to the top and added prime. I hope that doesn't mess this up? It was down about a 1/2 inch. So it wasn't much. I think its down again so i will be adding water to it this evening and more prime. I will also be stopping by the store to pickup the CC today, its supposed to be in.

I am reading horror story's on the forum of people doing the fishless cycle and are now into months and it still not working, having bad thoughts that this wont work

FishShack

You're 55 is going perfectly according to plan. You've got to keep in mind that the stories you hear on the threads are only people who run into issues with their water. No one starts a thread just to state that their fishless cycles went perfectly, only if they run into a problem. I would bet that 95% of people who follow the guide have absolutely no complications...but the threads you see are the 5%. The crushed coral in the 55 will keep the water stable and you won't run into problems with the pH crashing.

The fact the ammo is already dropping is a fantastic sign. A drop of 1-2ppm of ammo in 8 days is a great indication everything is perfect. It's normal to have to top off the water since the water temperature is so warm.

I do think the pH crashed in the smaller tank and that is what reverted the cycle...but it should recover quickly. If you want, you can put a TINY amount of the CC you bought in a bag in the 20 gallons filter. You don't want to add so much that it changes the pH drastically...but it will help to add buffers to the water and keep the pH from dropping again. I would add only a few good sized pinches.

Just keep doing the pwc's in the 20 gallon to keep ammo and no2 under .25 at all times. Don't be afraid to do 2 back to back pwc's if needed.

Again...everything is perfect...don't worry, and don't let a few people's challenges discourage you. There are only 3 people on the board right now who I know are experiencing problems. I think I've got them sorted out...but a couple of them don't want to listen to my advice (I don't know how to make the angry emoticon...but imagine it's here, lol)

 

[eco23]

Also just to double check I am using the MarineLand Bio Filter kit with the carbon filters, I know eco in the guide you explain your dislike but its what I have but I will make sure they are not changed out unless the proper steps are taken, for right now and probably not for a long time they wont be changed. Also this is the ammo I am using is this stuff ok? See link below.

Shop Red Max 64 Oz. Red Max Ammonia Clear Cleaner at Lowes.com

Are these items that I am using going to work with a fishless cycle?


FishShack

Just leave the carbon in for now. It's not the carbon I dislike, it's the way the makers suggest changing them every month just to make money at the expense of the fish.

I'm not familiar with the brand of ammonia, just check very closely on the bottle to make sure it doesn't contain dyes, perfumes, surficants, detergents, etc...

 

[FishShack]

Ok the Red Max 64 Oz. Red Max Ammonia Clear Cleaner ingredients are Ammonium Hydroxide and Surfactant

No perfumes, dyes and no phosphorus.

Will this work?

 

[eco23]

Ok the Red Max 64 Oz. Red Max Ammonia Clear Cleaner ingredients are Ammonium Hydroxide and Surfactant

No perfumes, dyes and no phosphorus.

Will this work?

Sorry man...bad news :-(

 

[eco23]

Some people say they've used ammonia with surfactants without a problem. I've heard of it causing issues though.

If I were you, I'd start a new thread asking people's opinions about ammonia with surfactants to cycle a tank and see if others can give you more info.

 

[FishShack]

Ill just go to the ACE hardware store down the road and pick up a bottle of ammonia. Ill just start over, drain and then rinse everything. Would this work?

 

[eco23]

Ill just go to the ACE hardware store down the road and pick up a bottle of ammonia. Ill just start over, drain and then rinse everything. Would this work?

I'd still start a thread. Thing is, your cycle seems to be going well. Most cases of impure ammonia leads to the cycle failing to start. I'd ask for other opinions. I'm an overly cautious person...so my recommendation here may not be necessarily what is required.

 

[royta]

Good news eco23!! My tank is cycled again. 4ppm ammo is reading 0 ammo and 0 nitrites in 24 hours. So this evening I removed the CC bags from my filters, lowered the temp back down, lowered my bubbler flow, and dosed ammo back up to 4ppm. Tomorrow evening, if nitrites are at 0 again, I'll do a 80% PWC to bring pH back to tap water values. Then I'll dose ammo back up to 4ppm again to make sure I didn't ruin my cycle...again. On Thursday evening I'll dose ammo up to 1ppm. Saturday I'll do one last PWC if nitrates are above 20ppm, and then fish are going in some time Saturday.

 

[eco23]

Good news eco23!! My tank is cycled again. 4ppm ammo is reading 0 ammo and 0 nitrites in 24 hours. So this evening I removed the CC bags from my filters, lowered the temp back down, lowered my bubbler flow, and dosed ammo back up to 4ppm. Tomorrow evening, if nitrites are at 0 again, I'll do a 80% PWC to bring pH back to tap water values. Then I'll dose ammo back up to 4ppm again to make sure I didn't ruin my cycle...again. On Thursday evening I'll dose ammo up to 1ppm. Saturday I'll do one last PWC if nitrates are above 20ppm, and then fish are going in some time Saturday.

You my friend have faced and overcome almost all of the obstacles there are during a cycle (either fishless or traditional). Congratulations on sticking with it and building a great home for your fish . Keep us updated...you're in the clear now. Just don't redecorate without the water in there again! Lol. Now if only I could convince a couple (particular) others on the site to use CC when they need it...we'd all be in good shape. I look forward to seeing pics of your fish

 

[royta]

Good news eco23!! My tank is cycled again. 4ppm ammo is reading 0 ammo and 0 nitrites in 24 hours. So this evening I removed the CC bags from my filters, lowered the temp back down, lowered my bubbler flow, and dosed ammo back up to 4ppm.

Wow, what a finicky bacteria colony. After 22.5 hours from the activities above, pH had lowered from 7.6 to 7.0-7.2. Ammo only lowered to 0-0.25 and nitrites only lowered to 2.0-5.0. So I did an 80% PWC. Nitrates are still at 40-80...they were 80-160 yesterday...closer to 160. Nitrites are at 0 after the PWC and pH is at 7.4. I dosed ammo up to 4.0. I'm not holding my breath on the chance that nitrites will be at 0 tomorrow, but you never know.

I probably should have done the 80% PWC yesterday so that I had fresh buffers in the water. My last PWC was on May 27. I think all would have been well with the cycle. Oh well, we'll see what happens.

 

[eco23]

Wow, what a finicky bacteria colony. After 22.5 hours from the activities above, pH had lowered from 7.6 to 7.0-7.2. Ammo only lowered to 0-0.25 and nitrites only lowered to 2.0-5.0. So I did an 80% PWC. Nitrates are still at 40-80...they were 80-160 yesterday...closer to 160. Nitrites are at 0 after the PWC and pH is at 7.4. I dosed ammo up to 4.0. I'm not holding my breath on the chance that nitrites will be at 0 tomorrow, but you never know.

I probably should have done the 80% PWC yesterday so that I had fresh buffers in the water. My last PWC was on May 27. I think all would have been well with the cycle. Oh well, we'll see what happens.

Man! The fish gods are testing your patience! I think it may be reasonable to permanently run CC in your filter. The key is to find the right balance where it will buffer your water...but not dramatically change the pH. The only tricky thing is that if your tap water pH is drastically different from what is in the tank...it can be stressful for the fish during pwc's. It may be worth doing a bit of experimenting and figuring out how much CC you can leave in there where it keeps it as close to your tap waters pH as possible. That's what I'd do at least. pH drops are a pain in the butt with fishless cycling...but a bad enough one when there are fish can be deadly.

 

[royta]

I don't think I'll need to run crushed coral all the time. The first time my tank cycled, I was still able to completely go through 4ppm ammonia in 24 hours without the crushed coral. We'll see I guess.

 

[eco23]

I don't think I'll need to run crushed coral all the time. The first time my tank cycled, I was still able to completely go through 4ppm ammonia in 24 hours without the crushed coral. We'll see I guess.

If you can get away without it, that's ideal. It just concerns me how easily your pH drops. I'm actually sitting on my PC right now writing an updated version of the guide which puts more emphasis on pH and alkalinity. You're probably thinking...woulda been nice if he'd done that a long time ago, lol.

 

[eco23]

Just a quick FYI...

The guide and FAQ has been slightly revised and updated. I am in the process of trying to get the guide in the articles section updated as well. In the mean time...if you have the article in your signature, please link people to the actual thread for the time being.

Other than cleaning up a few paragraphs, the revisions deal with the following-

-More of an emphasis on pH and alkalinity while fishless cycling
-The use of crushed coral or aragonite as an insurance policy to prevent pH crashes and stalls
-A little bit of info touching on live plants during the cycle
-A new view on "instant cycling" products, and a discouragement from using them

And thanks to mfdrookie for posting the new changes

 

[thras]

FyI: Im currently doing a fishless cycle without seeding material I put some Ecocomplete in and put the water out of the bag in and am getting fast results with it

 

[royta]

6/7 10:15PM
Good news eco23!! My tank is cycled again. 4ppm ammo is reading 0 ammo and 0 nitrites in 24 hours. So this evening I removed the CC bags from my filters, lowered the temp back down, lowered my bubbler flow, and dosed ammo back up to 4ppm. Tomorrow evening, if nitrites are at 0 again, I'll do a 80% PWC to bring pH back to tap water values. Then I'll dose ammo back up to 4ppm again to make sure I didn't ruin my cycle...again. On Thursday evening I'll dose ammo up to 1ppm. Saturday I'll do one last PWC if nitrates are above 20ppm, and then fish are going in some time Saturday.

6/8 8:13PM
Wow, what a finicky bacteria colony. After 22.5 hours from the activities above, pH had lowered from 7.6 to 7.0-7.2. Ammo only lowered to 0-0.25 and nitrites only lowered to 2.0-5.0. So I did an 80% PWC. Nitrates are still at 40-80...they were 80-160 yesterday...closer to 160. Nitrites are at 0 after the PWC and pH is at 7.4. I dosed ammo up to 4.0. I'm not holding my breath on the chance that nitrites will be at 0 tomorrow, but you never know.

I probably should have done the 80% PWC yesterday so that I had fresh buffers in the water. My last PWC was on May 27. I think all would have been well with the cycle. Oh well, we'll see what happens.

6/9 9:00PM
I actually have a positive outlook after this evening's tests. pH is at 7.6. Ammo is at 0. Nitrites are at 0.25-0.50. Nitrates are at 80-160. I dosed ammo back up to 4.0ppm. Yesterday's PWC turned me back around I think. Tomorrow's check will only be after 20 hours, so it would be a very pleasant surprise if nitrites were at 0, as I'd be able to get fish on Saturday after a PWC. Crossing my fingers. If not, I'd still be happy with Monday.

 

[Deckape]

6/9 9:00PM
I actually have a positive outlook after this evening's tests. pH is at 7.6. Ammo is at 0. Nitrites are at 0.25-0.50. Nitrates are at 80-160. I dosed ammo back up to 4.0ppm. Yesterday's PWC turned me back around I think. Tomorrow's check will only be after 20 hours, so it would be a very pleasant surprise if nitrites were at 0, as I'd be able to get fish on Saturday after a PWC. Crossing my fingers. If not, I'd still be happy with Monday.

You're doing great

 

[FishShack]

Hi again,

Ok I have drained the tank, rinsed off the decorations and tubes, got rid of the gravel and got rid of the carbon filters in the 55 gallon tank that had the wrong ammo added. Question: Its very hard to find the 350B bio-wheel assembly in my area and I would need 4 of them, could I rinse\clean\soak the bio-wheel assembly and re-use them? Would that be ok? I also have the ACE ammo now, so the bio-wheel is the only thing left to worry about before I get started again.

Thanks
FishShack