The Diatoms Persist...Please Advise

[Osage_Winter]

I have normal, black substrate (well BROWNISH black due to the algae.... For the most part I can vacuum the diatoms off the substrate but it's hard to get it all without emptying my tank.

Do you mean black glass gravel?

I know that emptying the entire tank to clean your substrate would be horrendously backbreaking -- and you'll have to do that every time you clean if you go down that route...

I do have fish. 5 tiger barbs, 2 albino tiger barbs, 3 silver dollars, a clown loach and a clown pleco and I think 2 snails but haven't seen them for awhile (my loach probably ate them !!). I will take some pics and post later! I only have my iPhone so pics aren't always the best!

Okay -- thanks. I have kept tropicals like yours in the past, including the Tiger Barbs (very frisky critters) and the Silver Dollars. Are the Loaches and Plecos Chichlids? I look forward to seeing your pics!

I have to admit I haven't cleaned my tank for 2 weeks (children take up alot of my time!!).

I don't think emptying your tank and removing all the gravel is going to make that any easier...

As well I have a 44g tall planted tank (no diatoms...which is why I don't think it's my water!) I'm going to clean and scrub my decorations tonight so we will see!!

I see...I didn't realize you had a second tank; indeed, if that tank doesn't have diatoms (and they're getting water from the same tank) then it may not be your water, and perhaps the tank is nearing a completion of cycle. How long has it been running?

Good luck with the scrubbing -- I grew tired of that after two tries.

Do you have fish? You might have said already... sorry didn't read back

As seen in my signature, I have four fancy (fantail) goldfish.

 

[Osage_Winter]

what are your nitrate readings? are you controlling them with weekly water changes? if high nitrate could be a cause, that's one of the first things i would control to see if it will help. try testing every couple of days, and doing a water change whenever nitrates climb above 10ppm or so. maybe starving the algae of nitrates will encourage it to stop growing? you never know, it's worth a shot.

Rachel,

Were you directing these questions towards me? If so, I haven't done a water test in a few weeks -- but your suggestion of high Nitrate is very interesting and something I will definitely watch. Thank you.

I will take some readings tonight if I could and get back to you with the results...perhaps we can starve these things as you said...

However, I do have one concern: No matter how many water changes I do, is it really going to matter in starving these things because my tap water may be the cause of the diatoms? With each water change, I'm just putting the same "contaminated" water into the tank with each change, so would this really help in this case?

 

[Osage_Winter]

Here's a link that's very helpful for algae.

Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association » Algae in the Planted Aquarium

I've seen and read the information in that link before, Limpet -- while subtly helpful, it doesn't really tell me anything beyond what I already know. The section on brown algae (diatoms) states that with time they may go away, or will less silica in the water, or that manual scraping can be done to remove them (or the introduction of snails and catfish). The scraping and washing down method didn't work for me; they just returned a week or so later. They haven't gone away on their own because my tank is nearly a year old and running that long.

 

[fred]

Well I bought new lights today, I'm hoping this will help solve the problem. I just bought new lights about 3months ago however did not buy aquatic lights. This is about when the problem happened, so hopefully this will fix it...dumb on my part!!! Gonna scrub everything tonight and change the bulbs...wish me luck

 

[Osage_Winter]

Can it be something as simple as changing bulbs? Perhaps the diatoms are coming from my fluorescent light strip above the tank? I would have never believed this...

But Fred has me thinking now...

 

[fred]

Can it be something as simple as changing bulbs? Perhaps the diatoms are coming from my fluorescent light strip above the tank? I would have never believed this...

But Fred has me thinking now...

So I've been told! Let's hope it's that easy eh

 

[Osage_Winter]

I simply cannot believe that...all this time I may have had the wrong lighting?

Can anyone else confirm this for me (and Fred) -- that the fluorescent lighting above my tank could be the source of the diatoms??

 

[mommytron]

IMO the light shouldn't have anything to do with it. i've seen people use all sorts of different lighting, and never heard complaints of diatoms that would not go away. i really think you should try to starve them of nitrates. since you've stated earlier in the thread that you don't do weekly water changes, your nitrates could be on the rise. one of the reasons a lot of people recommend weekly PWC's is to control the nitrates. without removing any of them (by means of water change), they are left in the tank to build and build and build. you should be monitoring them and doing a PWC anytime they reach above 40ppm (some say 25ppm, some say 80ppm, i think 40ppm is a good middle ground.)

 

[fred]

I simply cannot believe that...all this time I may have had the wrong lighting?

Can anyone else confirm this for me (and Fred) -- that the fluorescent lighting above my tank could be the source of the diatoms??

Mr. Limpet is one person who told me (I had a previous thread on diatoms). I've also read it through researching online. It's worth a shot!!

 

[Mr. Limpet]

I simply cannot believe that...all this time I may have had the wrong lighting?

Can anyone else confirm this for me (and Fred) -- that the fluorescent lighting above my tank could be the source of the diatoms??

What kinda lighting do you have?

I went from a 17w cheapo kit to 55w CPF light (both 6700K) and I'm still dealing with BA after 2+ months and it's just starting to slow down. Anyone that says new/higher lighting can't cause Diatoms, needs to come clean my tank because I'm tired of it lol.

GWAPA says old/fading bulbs can cause it too.

Here's a link to BA that should be helpful.

Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association » Algae in the Planted Aquarium

 

[James_in_MN]

- An overabundance of nitrAtes can contribute, but I'm sure you're watching your nitrAte levels and changing your water weekly.

That may be an issue...

What are you testing your ammonia / nitrIte / nitrAte levels with? Don't use test strips, as they are notoriously inaccurate. You should be using a liquid test kit; the favorite of these forums is API Freshwater Master Test Kit, found in any chain pet store.

What are your ammonia / nitrIte / nitrAte levels currently?

I'm using the API liquid kit.

No matter what my readings and test results are -- whether they're poor or fantastic -- I always get the diatoms, even if my parameters remain good for a stretch of time. This doesn't seem to stop their growth, at all.

what are your nitrate readings? are you controlling them with weekly water changes? if high nitrate could be a cause, that's one of the first things i would control to see if it will help. try testing every couple of days, and doing a water change whenever nitrates climb above 10ppm or so. maybe starving the algae of nitrates will encourage it to stop growing? you never know, it's worth a shot.

Rachel,

Were you directing these questions towards me? If so, I haven't done a water test in a few weeks -- but your suggestion of high Nitrate is very interesting and something I will definitely watch. Thank you.

I suggested nitrAtes could be an issue, you said water conditions didn't change anything with the diatoms.

Someone else suggested that nitrAtes could be an issue, you said they may be the cause.

I R Confused.

 

[Osage_Winter]

IMO the light shouldn't have anything to do with it. i've seen people use all sorts of different lighting, and never heard complaints of diatoms that would not go away.

Okay...well, that's a bit of a relief to know...

i really think you should try to starve them of nitrates. since you've stated earlier in the thread that you don't do weekly water changes, your nitrates could be on the rise. one of the reasons a lot of people recommend weekly PWC's is to control the nitrates. without removing any of them (by means of water change), they are left in the tank to build and build and build. you should be monitoring them and doing a PWC anytime they reach above 40ppm (some say 25ppm, some say 80ppm, i think 40ppm is a good middle ground.)

Okay; I will definitely take this into consideration -- I will try and get around to a test sometime this weekend perhaps (it's my birthday on the 16th so I may be busy) and report back with the readings.

But as I stated earlier, I am a bit confused as far as the water changes if it is my tap water as a source that's causing these -- no matter how many water changes I do, isn't it still putting in fresh water that contains these contaminants in the first place?

 

[Osage_Winter]

What kinda lighting do you have?

I went from a 17w cheapo kit to 55w CPF light (both 6700K) and I'm still dealing with BA after 2+ months and it's just starting to slow down. Anyone that says new/higher lighting can't cause Diatoms, needs to come clean my tank because I'm tired of it lol.

Rachel above just suggested to me that she doesn't believe the lighting has anything to do with these issues...

As far as my lighting, I'm not sure exactly what kind it is, technically speaking -- I bought it as a complete strip light (it's an Aqueon) from the shop I ordered my tank from, and it's a 48" long fluorescent strip. It's one of these strips:

Aqueon » Single Tube Fluorescent Strip-Lights | Products

 

[Osage_Winter]

I suggested nitrAtes could be an issue, you said water conditions didn't change anything with the diatoms.

Someone else suggested that nitrAtes could be an issue, you said they may be the cause.

I R Confused.

James,

I am very sorry for the confusion -- let me clarify: I took Rachel's suggestion as a good one that perhaps the Nitrates continue to climb, and that may be the source of the diatoms in this tank. You had suggested the same and I thought initially that the water conditions didn't matter, but upon deeper consideration, it may in fact be a factor...

At any rate, here's the situation: High Nitrates can indeed be a problem, so I am going to have to, now, keep an eye on them -- however, I must still stand by the observation that even when these were in check (based on the random API tests I have done) the diatoms didn't go away. Perhaps I'm just not dilligent enough with constant maintenance and WCs, but as I said to Rachel -- I don't see how constant WCs are going to change any factors here because if the source is my tap water, the constant adding of fresh water is just putting silicates back into the column...

Again -- I apologize for the confusion; I truly appreciate you, Rachel and Fred continuing to assist me with this annoying problem.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Rachel above just suggested to me that she doesn't believe the lighting has anything to do with these issues...

As far as my lighting, I'm not sure exactly what kind it is, technically speaking -- I bought it as a complete strip light (it's an Aqueon) from the shop I ordered my tank from, and it's a 48" long fluorescent strip. It's one of these strips:

Aqueon » Single Tube Fluorescent Strip-Lights | Products

I'd say it's not your lights either since most of those fixture don't get above 30w or so. I think she said that lighting won't keep them coming back. How long has the BA been in your tank? I think the average life span is around 2 months (+/-) till they burn themselves out, so if you clean the tank and think you've gotten rid of them, chances are you didn't. Silica is the main culprit that causes them from my research and the GWAPA says old bulbs will too. With you light on, look at the bulb and see if the ends have dark/black bands on the glass, if so your bulb has reached the end of it's life span and should be replaced IMO/E.

Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association » Algae in the Planted Aquarium

My BA is slowing and will be dead soon, but it's a well seasoned, balanced tank that's been running for 3+ years and the only change made was the lighting jump (17w->55w). The BA came in about 2-3 weeks after the upgrade, so for my BA outbreak it is the lighting and it's a no option (no brainer) diagnosis, since that's the only change I've made.

 

[fred]

+1 Mr.Limpet

I don't know if your lighting, Osage, is the culprit in your tank. However after doing alot of reading on here and online, I THINK it might be mine. Like I said I replaced my bulbs about 3 months ago. I tried to save some money and did not get aquarium bulbs, just regular florescent bulbs. After really thinking about it, it was around that time my diatom problem started. I think the bulbs I got don't give out enough light (even though it looks like they do, I think they might be the wrong type of light source...if that makes sense ) In any event I bought proper aquarium bulbs yesterday and spent 3 hours last night scrubbing the you know what out of my plants (fake plants) and decor and glass and so on. For me it is worth trying different "proper" bulbs as I now have the right lighting and type of bulb for a planted tank (which I plan on turning this one into after I move my silver dollars to a 125g, which I will have one day soon hopefully) I hope you can figure out your situation, I'll keep you posted on mine

 

[mommytron]

But as I stated earlier, I am a bit confused as far as the water changes if it is my tap water as a source that's causing these -- no matter how many water changes I do, isn't it still putting in fresh water that contains these contaminants in the first place?

but you don't KNOW that your tap water is the problem. i would absolutely try keeping up with weekly PWC's and testing your water (weekly PWC's should be performed no matter what anyway, IMO) to see if you can't control the nitrates and starve the algae.

have you contacted your water supplier? they might be able to tell you what the silica content in the water is.

also, have you tried changing foods? apparently a lot of fish food has added silicates. another thing worth trying.

this article is about reef tanks, but has a lot of interesting info about diatoms. Feature Article: Silica In Reef Aquariums — Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine

 

[melosu58]

7 threads on diatoms merged together.

 

[Osage_Winter]

I'd say it's not your lights either since most of those fixture don't get above 30w or so.

Okay...

I think she said that lighting won't keep them coming back. How long has the BA been in your tank?

Almost the entire time my tank has been running -- nearly a year, give or take some months.

I think the average life span is around 2 months (+/-) till they burn themselves out, so if you clean the tank and think you've gotten rid of them, chances are you didn't. Silica is the main culprit that causes them from my research and the GWAPA says old bulbs will too. With you light on, look at the bulb and see if the ends have dark/black bands on the glass, if so your bulb has reached the end of it's life span and should be replaced IMO/E.

I'm dealing with this way beyond two months now. But even if the bulbs in my strip are showing some exhaustion symptoms, can fluorescent light really play that large of a role in diatom insistence?

Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association » Algae in the Planted Aquarium

My BA is slowing and will be dead soon, but it's a well seasoned, balanced tank that's been running for 3+ years and the only change made was the lighting jump (17w->55w). The BA came in about 2-3 weeks after the upgrade, so for my BA outbreak it is the lighting and it's a no option (no brainer) diagnosis, since that's the only change I've made.

Well, I guess that answers my question...

 

[Osage_Winter]

+1 Mr.Limpet

I don't know if your lighting, Osage, is the culprit in your tank. However after doing alot of reading on here and online, I THINK it might be mine. Like I said I replaced my bulbs about 3 months ago. I tried to save some money and did not get aquarium bulbs, just regular florescent bulbs. After really thinking about it, it was around that time my diatom problem started. I think the bulbs I got don't give out enough light (even though it looks like they do, I think they might be the wrong type of light source...if that makes sense ) In any event I bought proper aquarium bulbs yesterday and spent 3 hours last night scrubbing the you know what out of my plants (fake plants) and decor and glass and so on. For me it is worth trying different "proper" bulbs as I now have the right lighting and type of bulb for a planted tank (which I plan on turning this one into after I move my silver dollars to a 125g, which I will have one day soon hopefully) I hope you can figure out your situation, I'll keep you posted on mine

Thanx Fred.