The Diatoms Persist...Please Advise

[hdultra]

Okay, the filters aren't collecting and trapping the diatoms -- but I was only responding to your assertion that good filtration is a must...I assumed I had more than adequate HOB power filtration on this tank...

Good filtration is a must for all tanks. I'm sure yours is more adequate.

But ours have this little _______, that invaded our tanks.

Pretty much everything I wrote are steps that can be taken to prevent and or eliminate the diatoms. It is not a scientific cure to rid our tanks of this nasty crap, but I think it's the the right direction.

I'm on a mission to rid my tank of this stuff. But not to harm the fish. Every step I take will be for there benefit. And my tank will remain crystal clear at all times. At least until some other bugger invades my tank.

All we can do is try to eliminate the cause and the will wipe out the effect.
As they say Cause N Effect.

 

[fort384]

Are you saying I should try the Seachem product that is supposed to cut down on silicates in the water? The PHOSGUARD stuff?



I've actually read about this theory before in many places -- the fact that diatoms may feed off too LITTLE light -- but it's always debunked by someone else who says there is no light control for diatoms, making me even more confused...

Would standard over-tank fluorescent lighting actually make a difference with diatoms?

PHOSBAN, PHOSGUARD, etc--yes. You could try it. It would eliminate one possible nutrient source.

As for the light, like I said, I would try increasing it. You can find arguments for or against anything, any method, any theory, especially when it comes to aquariums... but in this case it would cost you nothing and is worth a try as a prophylaxis. Worst case, it does nothing. Best case, it works, and you can report back on how it is a miracle cure

Maybe the combination of reducing silicates/phosphate and increasing light will help. Maybe not. Maybe you do nothing and it goes away after a few weeks.

I can tell you that every tank I have ever setup has had an outbreak of diatoms within the initial 6 months of start up, and it has gone away every time, pretty much of its own volition, and not returned.

 

[hdultra]

I hope I didn't confuse you. Not what I'm trying to do.

I think with study and the people's advice on this site will clear up our tanks. So as far regrowth in mine has not showed it's face. TG.

If you find out other way's please let me know. I'l keep updating our post.

 

[hdultra]

PHOSBAN, PHOSGUARD, etc--yes. You could try it. It would eliminate one possible nutrient source.

As for the light, like I said, I would try increasing it. You can find arguments for or against anything, any method, any theory, especially when it comes to aquariums... but in this case it would cost you nothing and is worth a try as a prophylaxis. Worst case, it does nothing. Best case, it works, and you can report back on how it is a miracle cure

Maybe the combination of reducing silicates/phosphate and increasing light will help. Maybe not. Maybe you do nothing and it goes away after a few weeks.

I can tell you that every tank I have ever setup has had an outbreak of diatoms within the initial 6 months of start up, and it has gone away every time, pretty much of its own volition, and not returned.

Good advise fort

 

[Osage_Winter]

PHOSBAN, PHOSGUARD, etc--yes. You could try it. It would eliminate one possible nutrient source.

Thanks; I am going to order some then (the Seachem)...should I put the granules in pantyhose, as suggested, or what about that "filter bag" Seachem sells...can that work?

And how would this go into my filter -- can I drop the sack of the stuff into my AquaClear, say, in place of the carbon pack?

As for the light, like I said, I would try increasing it. You can find arguments for or against anything, any method, any theory, especially when it comes to aquariums... but in this case it would cost you nothing and is worth a try as a prophylaxis. Worst case, it does nothing. Best case, it works, and you can report back on how it is a miracle cure

I understand, but are you sure fluorescent lighting will affect these buggers? What about direct sunlight? I know sun isn't good for green algae, but what about diatoms?

I can tell you that every tank I have ever setup has had an outbreak of diatoms within the initial 6 months of start up

Really? Then I may actually be on schedule, as my tank has been set up for about five or so months...

and it has gone away every time, pretty much of its own volition, and not returned.

You mean the spores just disappear off of everything -- just like that, with no wiping or scrubbing? But what if the problem lies with my water supply...won't this keep happening when I change or top off the water?

 

[hdultra]

No with mold spores we have to physically remove it.
In the air and on surfaces.

Id say that silicates and phosphate need to be captured to stall the growth of Brown Diatoms.
Being absorbed by the stuff your putting in. Or captured by the polishing pads I put into my filters.

Yes you could be re feeding the water with Silicates and Phosphates that feed diatoms with water changes.

It's not going to happen to me because, I'm trying DI Water which removes all of those contaminates that cause diatoms.

I ordered a phosphate test kit to see if my tap has it in there. Waiting for it to come in the mail.

 

[fort384]

Thanks; I am going to order some then (the Seachem)...should I put the granules in pantyhose, as suggested, or what about that "filter bag" Seachem sells...can that work?

you can go either route. They will accomplish the same thing.

And how would this go into my filter -- can I drop the sack of the stuff into my AquaClear, say, in place of the carbon pack?

Yup. Or if you can fit it behind the carbon pack. However it crams in there should be fine, so long as some water is moving through it.

I understand, but are you sure fluorescent lighting will affect these buggers? What about direct sunlight? I know sun isn't good for green algae, but what about diatoms?

Florescent lighting is far more powerful watt for watt as compared to incandescent. I wouldn't stick the tank in direct sunlight. It will be a green mess... you won't even see the brown diatoms thru the green . There are methods for using direct sunlight on planted tanks, but in your case, I would advise against trying this.

Really? Then I may actually be on schedule, as my tank has been set up for about five or so months...

Really. In fact, I just setup another tank about a month ago, and currently (just in the last few days) I have started to see diatoms in elevated levels. I cranked up the flow, brushed the rocks and glass, and did a 50% PWC. I will do the same in a few days while the outbreak is "on".

You mean the spores just disappear off of everything -- just like that, with no wiping or scrubbing? But what if the problem lies with my water supply...won't this keep happening when I change or top off the water?

No... brushed them off. I am pretty meticulous about tank maintenance though. During a diatom outbreak I will brush the rocks/walls every other day or so.

You also need to be prepared for the fact that even if everything is perfect, you are still going to get some diatoms/algae growth. If the water is healthy for fish, it is healthy for algae. Granted, correcting imbalances can minimize it and help control it, but cleaning glass and decor is an inevitable part of owning an aquarium. Not to say it will always be like the problem you are experiencing now... but I can tell you my tanks usually look pretty good, but I clean the glass at least twice a week, and trim plants/do PWCs every Sunday.

If you are 1 of the unlucky few with extremely high silicate/phosphate/nitrates in your water supply... well then you will have to explore other options, as mentioned by hdultra earlier in the thread...water filtration... or maybe you run phosban (or similar) on a more permanent basis to control it.

I know you are kind of looking for the magic bullet for diatoms, but it doesn't exist. As with much in this hobby, it will be some trial and error to see what works, what doesn't.

Bottom line, I would start with the low cost easy things to try first, like lighting and chemical filtration, and go from there.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

I actually use a paint brush (never used as one, obviously) to clean my tank and decor.

 

[fort384]

Good idea tim. I use a toothbrush.

 

[Osage_Winter]

Thanks guys; all good input so far. I will order the Seachem stuff and see if that begins trapping some of these...

 

[hdultra]

Thanks guys; all good input so far. I will order the Seachem stuff and see if that begins trapping some of these...

Let me know how that works, I'll add it to my writing.

 

[Osage_Winter]

No with mold spores we have to physically remove it.
In the air and on surfaces.

Huh? I thought we were talking about diatoms in a fish tank...

Id say that silicates and phosphate need to be captured to stall the growth of Brown Diatoms.
Being absorbed by the stuff your putting in. Or captured by the polishing pads I put into my filters.

I will try the Seachem stuff -- but my AquaClear 110 has a sponge block that should catch some of these, no? Acting like your polishing pads?

Yes you could be re feeding the water with Silicates and Phosphates that feed diatoms with water changes.

So, there's no way to control them then, and I may need to live with them, assuming the PhosGuard doesn't work...

 

[Tim Wheatley]

So, there's no way to control them then, and I may need to live with them, assuming the PhosGuard doesn't work...

I've had to. I got in a pretty good routine though and the maintenance is minimal now.

 

[Osage_Winter]

you can go either route. They will accomplish the same thing.

Do those filter bags need to be cut to size in order to squeeze into a filter basket?

Yup. Or if you can fit it behind the carbon pack. However it crams in there should be fine, so long as some water is moving through it.

Okay...

Florescent lighting is far more powerful watt for watt as compared to incandescent. I wouldn't stick the tank in direct sunlight. It will be a green mess... you won't even see the brown diatoms thru the green . There are methods for using direct sunlight on planted tanks, but in your case, I would advise against trying this.

Okay -- no sunlight. But fluorescent lighting will actually affect diatom growth?

Really. In fact, I just setup another tank about a month ago, and currently (just in the last few days) I have started to see diatoms in elevated levels. I cranked up the flow, brushed the rocks and glass, and did a 50% PWC. I will do the same in a few days while the outbreak is "on".

But is it possible that I'm still in this "growth period" for these things, being that I'm up and running for only five months?

No... brushed them off. I am pretty meticulous about tank maintenance though. During a diatom outbreak I will brush the rocks/walls every other day or so.

So you go into the tank with a brush and remove them?

You also need to be prepared for the fact that even if everything is perfect, you are still going to get some diatoms/algae growth. If the water is healthy for fish, it is healthy for algae. Granted, correcting imbalances can minimize it and help control it, but cleaning glass and decor is an inevitable part of owning an aquarium. Not to say it will always be like the problem you are experiencing now... but I can tell you my tanks usually look pretty good, but I clean the glass at least twice a week, and trim plants/do PWCs every Sunday.

I understand...

If you are 1 of the unlucky few with extremely high silicate/phosphate/nitrates in your water supply... well then you will have to explore other options, as mentioned by hdultra earlier in the thread...water filtration... or maybe you run phosban (or similar) on a more permanent basis to control it.

I am going to try the PhosGuard from Seachem, I think...

I would start with the low cost easy things to try first, like lighting and chemical filtration, and go from there.

Thanks.

 

[hdultra]

Fort why does it wait for the aquarium to cycle. I looked and could not see a reason for that. I looked all over the net. Also why does it not bother anyone with a established tank ?

 

[Tim Wheatley]

I have 7 tanks, all established. The oldest one was established (after seeding from the same tank before we moved) in October, 2009. It still gets it.

 

[hdultra]

I have 7 tanks, all established. The oldest one was established (after seeding from the same tank before we moved) in October, 2009. It still gets it.

I was just wondering, because I have read and read everything I could to understand the whole process. I know why it happens and I know how to slow it down. It's that every were I read it say's it comes and it will go away as quickly as came ? Really. What made it go away, all by it's self ? Just something hanging there with no solid answer. Silicates and phosphates just don't go away. They are there or there not. I also think that we as a group can come up with a for shure plan to stop it in their track when some one has that problem. And put a sticky up for new people with the problem. I'll tell I spent many hours on this subject. I love the education thou.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...What made it go away, all by it's self ? Just something hanging there with no solid answer. Silicates and phosphates just don't go away. ...

Yes they do... they are consumed by things. One of the things diatoms are fueled by are silicates. One of the reasons diatoms bloom is because of an overabundance of silicates. So diatom population increases, increases, increases, and then all of a sudden silicates are depleted by the high population of diatoms. No silicates to fuel the diatoms then means diatom population crashes. It's no different than any other biological system where an overabundance of food means an overabundance of things that eat that food. Eventually, the "predator" population crashes because it has increased in size enough that it eliminates its own food source. This is true with any closed system. What throws one of many variables into our systems are water changes. That's an obvious import path for more silicates, thus giving the diatoms more fuel.

 

[hdultra]

Yes they do... they are consumed by things. One of the things diatoms are fueled by are silicates. One of the reasons diatoms bloom is because of an overabundance of silicates. So diatom population increases, increases, increases, and then all of a sudden silicates are depleted by the high population of diatoms. No silicates to fuel the diatoms then means diatom population crashes. It's no different than any other biological system where an overabundance of food means an overabundance of things that eat that food. Eventually, the "predator" population crashes because it has increased in size enough that it eliminates its own food source. This is true with any closed system. What throws one of many variables into our systems are water changes. That's an obvious import path for more silicates, thus giving the diatoms more fuel.

That's exactly what been bouncing in my head. That's a great answer. No food source (Silicates) no diatoms. What about Phosphate (P04). Do you think, if one or the other is missing from the water. We would have diatoms ? - PO4 or - Silicates. The other guy here is trying Phosgaurd P04 Remover.

That goes for mold, no water source no mold. No natural fibers no mold.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

If it helps I do get them when not fertilizing and when fertilizing with Flora Pride.

I also wonder if me changing the substrate makes a difference. Maybe that uncovers fresh silicate and that's why I have it. I guess even a serious substrate cleaning could uncover some? That is, of course, if the substrate is capable of sealing it away until I uncover it...