under gravel filter with flora max

[jakeras]

Hey everyone. The tank I got has an undergravel filter. Would I be able to use it along with my hob with flora max under gravel as my substrate. I don't want any "you shouldn't use under gravel filters" because I don't even know if I will use it yet. I'm just curious. Also would the under gravel filter mess with the plants?

 

[Fresh2o]

My only concern with that substrate (or any substrate) is the grain size and the UGF plate slots. Smaller grains may clog the openings.

As for their effect on plant growth, that is under debate depending on the forum you visit (type in "UGF and plants" in Google).

 

[aqua_chem]

They won't hurt that plants, but the plants will send roots down into the filter and cause a nice mess. I agree that the substrate size is likely too small to work well with an UGF. I also think that being able to use a gravel vac is an important part of using an UGF, which is somewhat difficult to do in a panted tank without harming root structures of plants.

 

[jakeras]

Yeah I thought it might hurt the filter. I didn't consider the vaccuming though. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[BBradbury]

Hello jake...

Under gravel filters aren't used much any more, because there are so many alternatives, like hang on the back and internal filters. The UGFs are easily clogged with fish and plant material and can cause water chemistry problems. Most, if not all fish health problems are the result of less than optimum water conditions. A planted tank with this type of filter really isn't possible, unless you pot the plants or go strictly with floating plants. Most don't like the appearance of the pots and like more of a variety than floating plants.

Just one reporter's opinion, though.

B

 

[candymancan]

I use both UGF and a typical hang on the back filter with those biobags... I always thought you needed both in combination... Back then when we got our tanks they came with with both... One is a 22 year old 30 long gallon tank, the other is a 14 year old 27g hex... Both have the original equipment.. undergravel filter with the power head and the hang on the side type filter with the biobags...

I just started getting into plants.. I have typical gravel, and its above 2-3 inchs deep.. I have a large anubius, very large amazon sword, and I forgot the names but I have a pinkish purle stringy type of plant in the tanks, and I have red nesaea which people say are super hard to take care of, and I have money wart..

Honestly... I think people who complain about undergravel filters are just noobs and don't know how to take care of their tanks..

I have never had a huge ammonia, or nitrate or anything spike in my tanks before and never had any issues with either tank using them... Same goes with people who say gravel isn't a good substrate. That may be true but my plants have been in my tanks for about 2 weeks now and none have died.. none are turning yellow, and in fact those red nesaea plants I have which people say are almost impossible to take care of or keep red.. Well they are still blood red for me... Some are slightly greenish yellow but they were like that when I got them...

The nesaea and money wart and all my other plants are sprouting roots, and I forgot what its called but they are growing roots outside the stems in the gravel as well. They are all maintining there color... Im using a lot of ferts tho.. I put in about 4 root tabs around my plants in each tank, but I noticed those just made the water extremely cloudy for 1-2 days I think they dissolved in the water, even tho I buried them I think the undergravel filters dissolved them... But im also using API leaf zone for iron and potassium, and im using API CO2 liquid booster, and im also using seachem flourish.. The API leaf zone im using the amount per the intructions only once a week, the flourish im using 2x a week, and the co2 booster im using everyday..

 

[aqua_chem]

I use both UGF and a typical hang on the back filter with those biobags... I always thought you needed both in combination... Back then when we got our tanks they came with with both... One is a 22 year old 30 long gallon tank, the other is a 14 year old 27g hex... Both have the original equipment.. undergravel filter with the power head and the hang on the side type filter with the biobags...

I just started getting into plants.. I have typical gravel, and its above 2-3 inchs deep.. I have a large anubius, very large amazon sword, and I forgot the names but I have a pinkish purle stringy type of plant in the tanks, and I have red nesaea which people say are super hard to take care of, and I have money wart..

Honestly... I think people who complain about undergravel filters are just noobs and don't know how to take care of their tanks..

I have never had a huge ammonia, or nitrate or anything spike in my tanks before and never had any issues with either tank using them... Same goes with people who say gravel isn't a good substrate. That may be true but my plants have been in my tanks for about 2 weeks now and none have died.. none are turning yellow, and in fact those red nesaea plants I have which people say are almost impossible to take care of or keep red.. Well they are still blood red for me... Some are slightly greenish yellow but they were like that when I got them...

The nesaea and money wart and all my other plants are sprouting roots, and I forgot what its called but they are growing roots outside the stems in the gravel as well. They are all maintining there color... Im using a lot of ferts tho.. I put in about 4 root tabs around my plants in each tank, but I noticed those just made the water extremely cloudy for 1-2 days I think they dissolved in the water, even tho I buried them I think the undergravel filters dissolved them... But im also using API leaf zone for iron and potassium, and im using API CO2 liquid booster, and im also using seachem flourish.. The API leaf zone im using the amount per the intructions only once a week, the flourish im using 2x a week, and the co2 booster im using everyday..

That's a nice straw man argument you've got going there.

I don't think anyone is saying that UGF don't work or are bad, but the simple fact of the matter is that for most setups they are entirely outclasses by other filters. HOB are cheap, have better biofiltration and mechanical filtration, make chemical filtration possible if you so choose, and are readily accessible for cleaning and regular tank maintenance. They are often quieter, but can offer similar oxygenation. They are also much better for larger tanks. Probably the most relevant usage of UGF comes when someone needs to filter a large number of tanks, such as with breeders or in LFS shops, where you can buy a single large air compressor and run many tanks as opposed of having HOBs on every tank.

Its the same case as with gravel as a plant substrate. It's not that gravel doesn't work. You can grow most plants free floating if you have rich water column fertilization if you wanted to. It's just that most of the other options are strictly better.

 

[candymancan]

I think I have heard tho that HOB filters can cause big ammonia spikes and nitrite spikes when you take the filters out and put new ones in.. I know people say to wash the new filters with the old one in the tanks water blah blah... But you know I could take the biobag out of my HOB filter and I wont see any ammonia spikes or nitrite because I also have that UGF working.. At least that's how I see it now.. So I just toss my old bio bag out wash the new one with the activated carbon in it to get the black stuff out using tap water and stick it in and im done..

Now I have noticed that the UGF... does have it downsides... It you lose the caps which cap the extra holes that the tube goes into... fish like loaches will swim inside under the tank.... I have had that happens before... Also it seems using root tabs is 100% pointless with them because the water flowing between the gravel like that just dissolves the tabs.. lol my water was cloudy for 1-2 days it kinda sucked.. Other then that I like em... Sometimes tho I notice I can get a little dirty spot under the filter that I cant get too with a gravel cleaner so I just lift the whole under gravel filter up and down a little bit by pulling on the tube and the power head will just suck it all up and spit it into the tank.. Yes it makes the water slightly nasty but that's what the HOB filter is for.

 

[azmodan]

I think I have heard tho that HOB filters can cause big ammonia spikes and nitrite spikes when you take the filters out and put new ones in.. I know people say to wash the new filters with the old one in the tanks water blah blah... But you know I could take the biobag out of my HOB filter and I wont see any ammonia spikes or nitrite because I also have that UGF working.. At least that's how I see it now.. So I just toss my old bio bag out wash the new one with the activated carbon in it to get the black stuff out using tap water and stick it in and im done..

Now I have noticed that the UGF... does have it downsides... It you lose the caps which cap the extra holes that the tube goes into... fish like loaches will swim inside under the tank.... I have had that happens before... Also it seems using root tabs is 100% pointless with them because the water flowing between the gravel like that just dissolves the tabs.. lol my water was cloudy for 1-2 days it kinda sucked.. Other then that I like em... Sometimes tho I notice I can get a little dirty spot under the filter that I cant get too with a gravel cleaner so I just lift the whole under gravel filter up and down a little bit by pulling on the tube and the power head will just suck it all up and spit it into the tank.. Yes it makes the water slightly nasty but that's what the HOB filter is for.

Filter sponges and biomedia last a lonnnnng time and do not really need to be replaced, just rinsed in dechlorinated water every few weeks or so. Things like purigen or filter floss can be replaced but since the biomedia is staying put you won't really see upticks in your parameters.

 

[aqua_chem]

I think I have heard tho that HOB filters can cause big ammonia spikes and nitrite spikes when you take the filters out and put new ones in.. I know people say to wash the new filters with the old one in the tanks water blah blah... But you know I could take the biobag out of my HOB filter and I wont see any ammonia spikes or nitrite because I also have that UGF working.. At least that's how I see it now.. So I just toss my old bio bag out wash the new one with the activated carbon in it to get the black stuff out using tap water and stick it in and im done..

You're doing it wrong. You should never toss your biomedia. You can use the cartridges that come with your HOB for years without a problem.

 

[candymancan]

You're doing it wrong. You should never toss your biomedia. You can use the cartridges that come with your HOB for years without a problem.

There is only so many times you can wash those biobags lol... After the 2nd or 3rd time they become so soft and mushy when I touch them my fingers go right through them and sometimes if I pull them out of the pump they break apart and turn into a big pile of mush. And if I cant clean them because they are mushy like that then they get clogged up and my HOB filter overflows and creates a waterfall of water over the tubing that goes in the tank to suck the water up... I have had fish tanks for 21 years so I have no idea what your talking about..

I dunno where you get the idea that you can use them for years... They go mushy after a month or so. If you leave them on for 2-3+ months they literally fall apart and turn into a big ball of slime... I think you and me are confusing the filters..

These things are what I use

Tetra Whisper Bio-Bag Disposable Filter Cartridges at PETCO

 

[aqua_chem]

There is only so many times you can wash those biobags lol... After the 2nd or 3rd time they become so soft and mushy when I touch them my fingers go right through them and sometimes if I pull them out of the pump they break apart and turn into a big pile of mush. And if I cant clean them because they are mushy like that then they get clogged up and my HOB filter overflows and creates a waterfall of water over the tubing that goes in the tank to suck the water up... I have had fish tanks for 21 years so I have no idea what your talking about..

I dunno where you get the idea that you can use them for years... They go mushy after a month or so. If you leave them on for 2-3+ months they literally fall apart and turn into a big ball of slime... I think you and me are confusing the filters..

These things are what I use

Tetra Whisper Bio-Bag Disposable Filter Cartridges at PETCO

I've used mine for years. Many people on here have used theirs for years. I don't know why yours don't last, but they should be quite durable.