Unexpected glowlight danio spawn!

[Andy Sager]

For starters, yes it's possible that the 2 species may have spawned together but that doesn't mean that the eggs would be fertilized successfully or that the hybrid fry would survive or be fertile. As I said in a previous post, when spawning occurs, a hormone is released which causes other females to want to spawn as well. It sounds like this is the case here.
At this point, all you can do is continue trying to feed them with the egg yolk and try to get an infusoria culture going. Also keep rotating in more live plants that should have infusoria on them. There are other foods now available on the market by Northfin and Aquatic Foods inc but I have no experience with them. I did use one of the older ones ( Hikari First bites) on some Angelfish fry and Betta fry with very poor success so I went back to my live foods.
Another option is to use live rotifers used to feed newly swimming marine fry. These are micro foods for when the fry are in the planktonic phase. I'm not sure of the cost for these cultures so it may not be financially prudent using this.

 

[Andy Sager]

Pictures of the fry from last night:
View attachment 389729View attachment 389730View attachment 389731

And one I took of the first free swimmer 2 nights ago:
View attachment 389732

Judging from the pictures, I'd say the fry are eating something because the belly is not concaved in.

 

[Lycanthi]

Judging from the pictures, I'd say the fry are eating something because the belly is not concaved in.

That's a relief! I suppose they're eating whatever tiny organisms came in on the moss. I'll try to cycle out some of the old moss and put some new moss from the display in there.

Also I've just thought of this - I have an empty tank outside in my patio that filled up with rain water a few weeks ago. I could go poke around in it and see if there's any infusoria in there? I think there's some dead leaves in the bottom half rotted so it might have grown something interesting. Or would that potentially introduce disease?

There has been no fish in the outside tank for at least a year, although there's probably been birds pooping in it / drinking from it. There's likely to be mosquito larvae if nothing else (is that safe to feed to the adult fish?).

 

[Andy Sager]

That's a relief! I suppose they're eating whatever tiny organisms came in on the moss. I'll try to cycle out some of the old moss and put some new moss from the display in there.

Also I've just thought of this - I have an empty tank outside in my patio that filled up with rain water a few weeks ago. I could go poke around in it and see if there's any infusoria in there? I think there's some dead leaves in the bottom half rotted so it might have grown something interesting. Or would that potentially introduce disease?

There has been no fish in the outside tank for at least a year, although there's probably been birds pooping in it / drinking from it. There's likely to be mosquito larvae if nothing else (is that safe to feed to the adult fish?).

The adults can eat the larvae if they are small enough to swallow whole. As for the leaves, it will all depend on what type of leaf it is whether it's safe for the fish.

 

[Lycanthi]

The adults can eat the larvae if they are small enough to swallow whole. As for the leaves, it will all depend on what type of leaf it is whether it's safe for the fish.

I went and had a look outside and found live bloodworms in a plant pot (with soil and plant) that had filled with a couple of inches of water. I fed some to the adult choprae, they seemed to like them. There's mosquito larvae in the empty tank but not much plant matter at the bottom, its mostly dust / sand, and mulm. The water is tea coloured too for some reason (I guess the leaves stained it and then rotted away?).

I'll try the fish with mosquito larvae next time.

The fry have finally learned how to eat from the surface. They had tiny yellow bellies after I fed them egg yolk this evening, it looks so cute



You can even see the yellow moving through the tiny digestive tract


Amazing!

One of them already has a reddish / orange eye rim in the right lighting (although I couldn't capture that on my camera). These fry are making me really want a macro lens for my phone.

I also finally got the eggs that were laid this morning out from under the moss. I think that's the 4th spawn since I've had these guys (about 12 days). I didn't think they could spawn so often but I suppose the females are taking turns.

There were around 30 eggs and about 14 look viable so far (that number might drop by tomorrow). I have them in a plastic cup floating in the tank for warmth (not sure if they'll survive like this but we shall see).

I'm going to try to set up a grow out tank for the fry soon, space is an issue, and I don't have a spare tank clean at the moment. Maybe I can put them in a plastic storage box with a sponge filter and heater for now (if I have a spare 50w heater).

 

[Andy Sager]

I went and had a look outside and found live bloodworms in a plant pot (with soil and plant) that had filled with a couple of inches of water. I fed some to the adult choprae, they seemed to like them. There's mosquito larvae in the empty tank but not much plant matter at the bottom, its mostly dust / sand, and mulm. The water is tea coloured too for some reason (I guess the leaves stained it and then rotted away?).

I'll try the fish with mosquito larvae next time.

The fry have finally learned how to eat from the surface. They had tiny yellow bellies after I fed them egg yolk this evening, it looks so cute

View attachment 389735

You can even see the yellow moving through the tiny digestive tract
View attachment 389734

Amazing!

One of them already has a reddish / orange eye rim in the right lighting (although I couldn't capture that on my camera). These fry are making me really want a macro lens for my phone.

I also finally got the eggs that were laid this morning out from under the moss. I think that's the 4th spawn since I've had these guys (about 12 days). I didn't think they could spawn so often but I suppose the females are taking turns.

There were around 30 eggs and about 14 look viable so far (that number might drop by tomorrow). I have them in a plastic cup floating in the tank for warmth (not sure if they'll survive like this but we shall see).

I'm going to try to set up a grow out tank for the fry soon, space is an issue, and I don't have a spare tank clean at the moment. Maybe I can put them in a plastic storage box with a sponge filter and heater for now (if I have a spare 50w heater).

If it's clean and holds water, anything, within reason, can be used for 4 fry to grow some. In this pic, this is an old clear sweater box I used for breeding some Bettas. The fry were in there for roughly a month before they needed to be moved. I modified a sponge filter tube so there was filtration, aeration and circulation.
So you can see, anything can be used. In this picture, I used the plastic boxes for my Guppy tanksIf it holds water, almost anything can be used. ( FYI I got those guppy boxes at the Dollar store for only $1.00 a piece. )

 

[Lycanthi]

If it's clean and holds water, anything, within reason, can be used for 4 fry to grow some. In this pic, this is an old clear sweater box I used for breeding some Bettas. The fry were in there for roughly a month before they needed to be moved. I modified a sponge filter tube so there was filtration, aeration and circulation. View attachment 389737
So you can see, anything can be used. In this picture, I used the plastic boxes for my Guppy tanksView attachment 389738If it holds water, almost anything can be used. ( FYI I got those guppy boxes at the Dollar store for only $1.00 a piece. )

Oh, that's clever, I like the stand with all the guppy boxes lined up neatly

How much water did the sweater box hold? It looks quite small?

I have an empty storage box I can use but I need to buy a new heater, I think my only other 50w heater's thermostat is broken and I wouldn't want to cook them.

Unfortunately I lost one of the fry today, he was bent at a weird angle this morning and swimming poorly (swim bladder or spinal issue?) by the time I got home from work he was gone with no trace, poor little thing

The other 3 are still eating and swimming normally. I saw 2 non-swimming fry sitting on the bottom of the breeder box too (from the second or third spawn I saved I suppose). Hopefully they'll become free swimming in the next few days and I can move all of them to a grow out tank.

I'm doing 2 x daily 10-15% water changes on the QT to keep the water clean for the fry at the moment (they have their parents in the same tank right now). I hope that's enough to keep the water fresh until I can give them their own tank?

 

[Andy Sager]

Oh, that's clever, I like the stand with all the guppy boxes lined up neatly

How much water did the sweater box hold? It looks quite small?

I have an empty storage box I can use but I need to buy a new heater, I think my only other 50w heater's thermostat is broken and I wouldn't want to cook them.

Unfortunately I lost one of the fry today, he was bent at a weird angle this morning and swimming poorly (swim bladder or spinal issue?) by the time I got home from work he was gone with no trace, poor little thing

The other 3 are still eating and swimming normally. I saw 2 non-swimming fry sitting on the bottom of the breeder box too (from the second or third spawn I saved I suppose). Hopefully they'll become free swimming in the next few days and I can move all of them to a grow out tank.

I'm doing 2 x daily 10-15% water changes on the QT to keep the water clean for the fry at the moment (they have their parents in the same tank right now). I hope that's enough to keep the water fresh until I can give them their own tank?

The sweater box was an old box I got from a friend that passed away so I don't know exactly how much water it could hold ( it broke during a move so I no longer have it) but I only used about 2 gallons of water for bettas.
As for the Guppy rack, Thanks. It was just one I built to fit in an area that I had space. LOL Those boxes are close to 5 gallons. I've also used plastic file boxes that hold 10 gallons of water for my Cory breeders.
( If it holds water, I use them. LOL )

 

[Lycanthi]

They spawned again, either last night or this morning. I collected about 20- 25 eggs, and one that had already hatched (maybe from an egg that was stuck in the moss from prior spawn).

I'm going to be overrun if this keeps up lol

I put the eggs into another plastic cup (actually the cut off bottom of a water bottle) floated in the tank, and I'm going to move the free swimming fry into a fry net with their moss etc, and then clean the breeder box out and put the newest hatchlings / eggs in there. Of the 4th(?) spawn 6 eggs hatched so I have 6 wrigglers that I need to move to the breeder box.

Hopefully over the weekend I'll have time to set up a grow out tank for the free swimmers.

 

[Lycanthi]

There's now 8 free swimming fry in breeder box and 11 clingy fry in containers at the top of the QT.

Also I found one free swimming fry at the top of the display tank so the 3 glowlights there have spawned too :O

Maybe they spawned before and I just never noticed fry because they got eaten so quickly?

I saved the single fry and put it in an unheated container on top of the display tank (the display is unheated so it's around 20 - 22C from night to day). I dont want to mix it with the other fry since it's used to different conditions (lower temp and lower pH).

The fish in QT are still spawning frequently but I think the eggs are getting eaten before I get to them (probably just as well). I also saw the adults going nuts over snail eggs (they were tearing into the snail eggs while the poor snail had barely finished laying them lol). I had no idea they'd eat snail eggs... I was hoping to breed some more physid snails in that tank (I have assassin snails in the main tank) but I guess they won't survive if glowlight danios eat them.

 

[Andy Sager]

Danios are one of the species that does eat their own spawn so it's very possible you missed the spawns because you didn't see many eggs. This is the downside to group spawning vs pair spawning. With a pair, you place them alone on a tank with something to allow the eggs to fall through so they are hidden from the breeders. ( I used marbles so the eggs were hidden. ) With group spawnings, a female could lay the eggs and another fish besides the male can follow her and eat the eggs. Nutritionally speaking, there's nothing wrong with them eating eggs of any form. Eggs are a good high protein meal.

 

[Lycanthi]

Update: there's now around 20 free swimming fry and probably more wriglers in the moss. I've stopped saving the eggs for now as I don't want to be overrun. The quarantine period for the new glowlights is nearly at an end so I'll be adding them to the display soon.

The fry are growing slowly - I expected them to be bigger by now. They've only just started growing visible caudal fins and the largest ones are (I guesstimate) just under 1cm long. At this rate it will be months before they're large enough to go with their parents.

I'm feeding them about 4 times a day with infusoria and egg yolk. I tried some new hatched brine shrimp but they ignored them completely. The shrimp look too large for the fry to eat, even the largest fry. I'm going to try to grow the brineshrimp out for the adult fish to eat instead and try hatching some more in a week or two for the fry.

I'm also battling nitrites in the fry tank / QT which I suspect is from all the fry food. It was at nearly 1mg/l before I noticed and started doing larger water changes. I'm keeping it below 0.25mg/l with 30% water changes twice daily. The nitrates were around 30-40 which is insane for such a short time (less than 4 weeks the tank has been set up) with 2x daily water changes :O although I read that nitrites can affect the nitrate test that I have so some of that is probably nitrites. Also since the QT isn't really planted (just a clump of moss) I suppose all that food has to go somewhere. It makes me really appreciate the plants in my display tank.

I didn't trust the nitrate test result at first (never used this brand before) so I tested my display which has less than 2.5 mg/l nitrates (which is probably normal, I have not seen nitrates in that tank for the last 5 years or so but I was using a less sensitive test before).

Hopefully the fry won't be damaged by the nitrites & nitrates in their tank, but I suspect this is why they are growing slowly...

 

[Andy Sager]

Water quality plays a big part in fry growth so keep going with water changes. ( My Angelfish fry tanks got 20%-25% changes 4 times per day. ) Increasing the size of the tank they are in will also help keep water quality a little better as it takes longer to foul more water. Growing brine shrimp is a long arduous task. The adult fish will eat the newly hatched ones just as well as the adult shrimp.

 

[Lycanthi]

Water quality plays a big part in fry growth so keep going with water changes. ( My Angelfish fry tanks got 20%-25% changes 4 times per day. ) Increasing the size of the tank they are in will also help keep water quality a little better as it takes longer to foul more water. Growing brine shrimp is a long arduous task. The adult fish will eat the newly hatched ones just as well as the adult shrimp.

The nitrite was down to 0.15mg/l this morning so hopefully this is the tail end of the nitrite spike. I'll keep doing the frequent water changes.

Oh, what is arduous about growing them? Aren't they basically the same thing as seamonkeys? I remember starting a batch of them and keeping a colony going for a few months as a kid. Maybe finding small enough food they can eat is hard? Ive been feeding them a sprinkle of spirulina powder. Anyway, I'll try the brineshrimp grow out and if it doesn't work, nevermind

I might try the adults with some of the newly hatched shrimp, the erythromicron will probably eat them at least - she seems to scour the bottom and sides of the tank for cyclops and other tiny critters (also eats the choprae eggs lol). Seems to largely ignore flake food. Her swimming & hunting style reminds me of my kribensis cichlids, hovering in the water column and slowly creeping up and then pouncing on prey. Very different to the other danios, extremely interesting little fish.

 

[Andy Sager]

The nitrite was down to 0.15mg/l this morning so hopefully this is the tail end of the nitrite spike. I'll keep doing the frequent water changes.

Oh, what is arduous about growing them? Aren't they basically the same thing as seamonkeys? I remember starting a batch of them and keeping a colony going for a few months as a kid. Maybe finding small enough food they can eat is hard? Ive been feeding them a sprinkle of spirulina powder. Anyway, I'll try the brineshrimp grow out and if it doesn't work, nevermind

I might try the adults with some of the newly hatched shrimp, the erythromicron will probably eat them at least - she seems to scour the bottom and sides of the tank for cyclops and other tiny critters (also eats the choprae eggs lol). Seems to largely ignore flake food. Her swimming & hunting style reminds me of my kribensis cichlids, hovering in the water column and slowly creeping up and then pouncing on prey. Very different to the other danios, extremely interesting little fish.

One of my former partners was a shrimp farmer.. He was constantly complaining on how long they took and how much maintenance they took to grow out in quantity. They ARE what was sold as sea monkeys so if you have had them before, then what you had was an Artemia specie. The biggest problem with growing them out is using too small of a container. Foul water kills them so water changes are must. Using the wrong salinity kills them so proper water chemistry is a must. Getting them to grow is not the same as getting them to be nutritious so good quality foods are a must. For me, just tossing the newly hatched nuplii is much easier.

 

[Lycanthi]

One of my former partners was a shrimp farmer.. He was constantly complaining on how long they took and how much maintenance they took to grow out in quantity. They ARE what was sold as sea monkeys so if you have had them before, then what you had was an Artemia specie. The biggest problem with growing them out is using too small of a container. Foul water kills them so water changes are must. Using the wrong salinity kills them so proper water chemistry is a must. Getting them to grow is not the same as getting them to be nutritious so good quality foods are a must. For me, just tossing the newly hatched nuplii is much easier.

I'm using full strength seawater and a 750ml jar, maybe I should get a larger container?

I dont have a hydrometer but I do have piped seawater so I'm just doing water changes with that, it should remain the same approxinate salinity (barring a bit of evaporation)?

I'd love to find a daphnia culture and culture that instead, unfortunately none of the shops sell live daphnia near me and I've never found them in the wild here (there were loads in UK when I lived there though).

 

[Andy Sager]

I'm using full strength seawater and a 750ml jar, maybe I should get a larger container?

I dont have a hydrometer but I do have piped seawater so I'm just doing water changes with that, it should remain the same approxinate salinity (barring a bit of evaporation)?

I'd love to find a daphnia culture and culture that instead, unfortunately none of the shops sell live daphnia near me and I've never found them in the wild here (there were loads in UK when I lived there though).

Container size depends on how much shrimp you are trying to raise. There are places that sell Daphnia cultures so it might be worth it to you to get some to start a Daphnia culture that you can keep going. Just let Google "do the walking through the yellow pages."

 

[Lycanthi]

Container size depends on how much shrimp you are trying to raise. There are places that sell Daphnia cultures so it might be worth it to you to get some to start a Daphnia culture that you can keep going. Just let Google "do the walking through the yellow pages."

I'll keep looking for a place that sells the cultures. Might be a long drive though so it's probably not something I can do anytime soon.

The nitrites came down to 0.05 mg/l and the fry seem to be growing again. There's now 26 free swimming fry. I suspect there's more in the moss that will come out.

One of the glowlight danios in QT has become really fat and bloated unfortunately. There's no pineconing and she's still eating but she hides a lot. I'm wondering if she has an obstruction in her gut, constipation, parasites, or is eggbound or something? She has a boxy look like a pregnant guppy I feel bad because it may have been brought on by the nitrite spike.

 

[Andy Sager]

I'll keep looking for a place that sells the cultures. Might be a long drive though so it's probably not something I can do anytime soon.

The nitrites came down to 0.05 mg/l and the fry seem to be growing again. There's now 26 free swimming fry. I suspect there's more in the moss that will come out.

One of the glowlight danios in QT has become really fat and bloated unfortunately. There's no pineconing and she's still eating but she hides a lot. I'm wondering if she has an obstruction in her gut, constipation, parasites, or is eggbound or something? She has a boxy look like a pregnant guppy I feel bad because it may have been brought on by the nitrite spike.

Yeah, water quality can do a lot of things to fish. You can try giving it epsom salt baths to see if that helps loosen any blockage. That and make sure that the fish is eating roughage like spirolina algae flakes or frozen ( not freeze dried) brine shrimp or the gut loaded brine shrimp.

 

[Lycanthi]

Yeah, water quality can do a lot of things to fish. You can try giving it epsom salt baths to see if that helps loosen any blockage. That and make sure that the fish is eating roughage like spirolina algae flakes or frozen ( not freeze dried) brine shrimp or the gut loaded brine shrimp.

I've been giving her epsom salt baths every morning and starving her in case it was constipation (I feed the others while she's in the bath). No change unfortunately I also gave her a boiled green bean (just the inner "pea" part) as I had no peas, and she ate it but she's still really round. Poor girl. I'll try some live brine shrimp tonight.

Should I put her in her own tank / container and monitor to see if she poops? I saw some white / clear poops on the tank bottom a while after the first time I gave her an epsom salt bath but I don't know if that was her, the snails, or the other fish.