Unwell Mollys - Beginner needs advice please

[ubuntootoo]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on here, or any other aquarium forum for that matter. I have a problem but maybe first a bit about my fishkeeping history.

I have only kept tropical freshwater fish once before, for about 4 years and that was about 24 years ago (when 15). I had a 4ft tank with a mixed community setup. It had undergravel filter plus an internal pump type filter with a foam element below motor if that makes sense. Apart from a couple of cases of white spot I never had any problems. I didn't even know about conditioning tap water etc but all seemed fine. I never knew about testing kits or anything like that.

This April I bought my wife an aquarium as a present. It was a secondhand item complete with pump, ornaments, light etc. I bought new gravel and a heater. The tank is 60cm x 30cm x 30cm.

I set it up and left it for two weeks before adding some fish. We don't have many so I doubt overcrowding is a problem. They are 3 small Neon Tetra's, 3 barbs (they look like tiger barbs but I think they were another name, still stripey anyway), and there were 5 mollies, so 11 small fish in all (all under 1.5 inches long)

The temp is about 78 degrees. The tank did not come with an undergravel filter. It just has an internal pump with a foam filter on the side of the tank near the surface creating lots of water movement.

Anyway...

All was fine until about a month ago. One of the Mollies became very lethargic and over a few days it grew bloated with its scales all sticking up. I think this was signs of dropsy. That fish died so I kept a close eye on the other fish for signs of illness.

After a couple of weeks things still looked ok so I assumed there were no more problems. A few days ago 2 of the mollies are laying on or near the bottom, not moving much, and one is very bloated, the other looks normal. The other 2 mollies are absolutely normal as are the other neons and barbs.

Since getting the tank I have been doing partial water changes every 2 weeks, changing about 25% of the water with untreated tap water (didn't know I should add stuff to it). Yesterday I did another water change. Today I bought a water testing kit and a bacterial treament. The water testing kit was the litmus paper type (don't know if there are any other types.)

The results are:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 250
Nitrite: 0
GH: 250
KH: 100
PH: 7.2

From the leaflet in the testing kit it seems that nitrate is acceptable at that level, as are all the other readings. Is that correct?

What is happening to my mollies? Could they be pregnant or are they ill?

One situation I do have which I never had years ago is snails. Lots and lots of the bloody things. They must have arrived on the plants. Every other day I pick out the ones I can see but they just keep coming back. Are they a problem?

Finally, I feed them on normal flake, and sometimes frozen bloodworm.

I can email photos if anyone wants to see them.

Thanks for the help. Sorry for a long post but wanted to give as much info as possible,

 

[Fishfur]

Though the ammonia and nitrite readings are correct at zero, if that nitrate reading is truly 250 ppm, it's crazy high. Sky high. Anything over 50ppm is unsafe, most of us aim for about 20ppm or less as a regular reading.

You need to do massive water changes to get the nitrates below 50 asap. Change 50% of the water, wait an hour or so, change another 50%.. test. If it's not below 50ppm, do another 50% change. Test again.

Did you get dechlorinator ? Prime, or another brand, but Seachem's Prime is the best of the lot, I think. Very economical to use compared to most brands. Most city tap water has chlorine, many also have ammonia added to create chloramines, which last much longer in the water.

Do you clean the filter ? The sponge in it should be rinsed and squeeze out in tank water, not tap, every couple of weeks or so. Any other media in there should be rinsed or swished as well. If the filter has room you could add some other bio media.. ceramic types in a mesh bag are fine, a bit of filter floss or filter wool, is great for water polishing.

If the nitrates are truly at 250 ppm, the symptoms you see are the result of nitrate toxicity. Sooner you fix that the better. Live plants will help use up nitrates, but the primary way they are managed is with regular partial water changes, weekly or biweekly, or even more often if needed, to keep nitrates around 20 or 30 ppm.

The bloated fish may not survive, but I hope it is not too far gone to respond to clean water.

Match temperature for the change water and make sure you use dechlorinator of some kind. The only alternative to dechorinators is to age your water for at least 24 hours, ideally in a wide top container, like a bucket, with an air stone running in it. Chlorine will gas off at the water surface. Chloramines, if you have them, may take up to one week to gas off, so it can run into keeping a few buckets of water out to age in that case. The dechlorinating products are much quicker, for sure.

Lastly, the general opinion is that dip strips are less accurate than liquid test kits are. I have never actually compared my dip strip readings to the liquid kit readings, so I don't know how big a difference there may be. But with readings like that, I'd want to check it with a liquid kit.

If you have read up and understand the nitrogen cycle, then you know the filter is the source of nitrates. They're the end product of the nitrogen cycle, and I would guess the filter is not being cleaned often enough.

Do you vacuum the gravel ? If there is buildup of left over food or poop in it, it should be removed.

API makes a master kit that is cheaper than buying each test separately, but it does not include GH or KH tests. I think it has pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, maybe high range pH too. You may want to invest in the liquid kit, you do get a quite a lot of tests per bottle, compared to the dip strips, litmus paper types.

And if it turns out the 250 is a typo.. then there is some other problem going on, for fish to show those symptoms.. I rather hope it is a typo.. I can't imaging nitrates that high.

 

[ubuntootoo]

thanks

Hi Fishfur,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Unfortunately the 250 was not a typo, but it may have been a bit high.

I did another couple of dip tests and it seems the tests are quite sensitive to the length of time the strip is immersed. The instructions said submerge for 2 seconds. I did one for 2 and it looked like 150 or thereabouts, I then did another for 3 seconds and it looked nearer to 250 so still too high but maybe I submerged first test for a fraction too long. Does not seem a very precise method to me.

Anyway...

I did 2 large water changes yesterday. The Nitrate now looks to be about 75. I will do another change when I get home from work today. The tap water treatment claims to remove chlorine and lots of other stuff plus supposedly has additives to benefit the fish.

I cleaned the filter again. It is a Fluval 2 plus. I am hoping it is sufficient for my small tank. From it's output flow I would guess it filters the tank volume very often. It seems quite powerful. I have ordered a gravel vacuum to assist with maintenance.

I will reply again once things seem better.

Another couple of question if I may.

Is my filter ok on its own or do I need an undergravel one too?

Is my plague of snails doing any harm?

Thanks again for your help

 

[jtez]

If the filter has a flow of over 70 gallons per hour (270 litres per hour), it should be ok. Cant hurt to have an extra filter if you want to invest in one though, but if you do I wouldn't go with an under gravel. A hang on back filter or a canister filter would be a much better option

High snail populations can be a sign of overfeeding, which in turn causes high nitrates. The snails themselves are probably not a huge problem as far as your nitrate level goes

 

[Fishfur]

Under gravel filters used to be very popular, but they have fallen out of favour nowadays. For one, they don't work well with planted tanks.. the roots get under the filter and can clog it up, plus you have trouble if you want to move a plant that's rooted through the filter grid.

The HOB and canister filters we have available these days make UGF unnecessary. I would not bother with one, instead, use an HOB or canister as the previous poster suggested.

The filter specs should tell you how much water your filter can move, if it's not on the filter or the box it came in, you can find out from Fluval, which is part of Hagen. They're very good about replying to questions from customers.

As for the dip strips, you're right, the length of time you dip the strip does have a significant effect on how they read, as does whether you shake off the water or not. Instructions are usually straighforward about this. For the test strip I use, I simply dip and yank it out in one smooth motion. Takes approx. one second to do this. Tetra 6 in 1 strips are what I use and that's what they call for. They say do not shake off the water, so I don't shake the strip. I set it down on the tank rim and use my stopwatch function on my wrist watch to time the individual test pads.

They also make an ammonia strip, which I once purchased by mistake. That one you dip and swish for, I think it's ten seconds, then shake off the water, and the reading is immediate.

The Tetra strips are very fast compared to a liquid kit, the first pads can be read in, it's either 15 or 30 seconds, the remainder in 60 seconds. I don't have any trouble using them and I'm so used to them now, and I know just what I expect to see, I don't really even have to compare them to the chart.

If there's any hint of colour on the nitrite pad, I do a water change right away and retest using a liquid kit. Almost never happens.. once when the filter impeller jammed and I was out all day. The tank was overstocked; I'd bought a few too many fish for my little 5G Q tank.

If the nitrate pad is more than slightly pink, same thing. WC and retest. I find it's just quick 'n easy for me to check with the strips. But if I need more accuracy, I use the liquid kits. Most of the other test pads read the same every time.. I only check if I see a colour reaction that's unexpected.

Might take you a few tries to get a technique that works for you so you get a reliable result each time, but it should not take too long. Be sure to read them in bright light, I read them under my tank lights.