What is killing all my neons ??

[candymancan]

I got 18 neon tetra's like 3 days ago.. 8 for my 30g which had 7 to make the numbers to 15.. All 15 are still alive..

The other 10 was for my discus tank, I already had 12 with some cardinals in that tank.. I had the cardinals/neons (12) for like a week prior and none of them died. However pretty much all 10 of the neons I got are dead or missing now.. I count only 15 total.. I have found 4 dead.. The other 3 are missing.. 2 of the neons I noticed after a day the red on there tails was turning pale white almost and they couldn't use there tails..

All 4 I found dead like this.. there red tails pretty much dead or limp yet they are still breathing.. This almost sounds like neon tetra disease to me.. The 8 I got for my 30g tank came from the same store petsmart but from a different tank even though the tanks are linked it was a different tank.

Im pretty ticked off.. I cant find my receipt and even if I did I can only find 3 of the dead ones.. They were on sale for $1.20 1 or 2 or 3 isn't a big loss but nearly all 10 are..

The 30g tank is all platies and 2 cory, 2 otto and that's it.. The discus tank I have 6 discus only 2-4 inches though. A red tail shark, 2 cory, 2 otto, and 2 rubbernose pleco... I don't think its the red tail shark.. I have one with 10 neons in another tank and they are all fine. Is it the discus killing them ? Or are they dying from some disease.. like I said the red parts in there tails turn a pale white almost and they die a day later. Also again I had 12 in there for a week and none died

 

[Angela1108]

Have you tested the water in the tanks? Depending on size and how long the tanks were up adding a bunch at once could have spikes ammonia


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[Ricky 1]

It sounds like neon tetra disease, if it is, there is no cure, were all the other fish in lfs ok when you bought them?

 

[Brookster123]

Where'd you get them? You qt?

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[candymancan]

Got em at petsmart.. The other fish we got like I said were a separate bag of 8 neons and 10 platies for my moms 30g tank... All those neons are still alive and she lost only 1 platy.


Right now I have 16 neon/cardinals.. since I had 12 prior that means only 4 of the 10 I got have survived.. I went back got 10 more from petco instead... lets hope these live... right now ive been floating them slowely acclimating them and adding tank water for the last 1-2 hours.. I want to be absolutetly sure none die...


Plus the problem is these **** neons are so tiny.. I hate when they sell little babies this size and not more fully grown ones. They are so fragile,.

 

[Brookster123]

Yah.. those big box store neons may as well be disposable, on sale . right? ? I hooe.yoi don't throw then right in with your discus

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[PNWaquarist]

Yep, I'd be hard-pressed to purchase stock from a big box store. And if I did, I'd quarantine for six weeks.

 

[Matt68005]

It sounds like neon tetra disease, if it is, there is no cure, were all the other fish in lfs ok when you bought them?

To what do you base this assumption?
Tetrahyema presents itself in Skin lesions in the cadul penducule region of the fish, like a browninsh under the skin lesion, not really any behavior symptoms.

 

[Ricky 1]

To what do you base this assumption?
Tetrahyema presents itself in Skin lesions in the cadul penducule region of the fish, like a browninsh under the skin lesion, not really any behavior symptoms.

The poster said about colour turning white,Fish begins to lose coloration in tetra disease, also The necrotic tissue becomes pale, eventually turning white in colour,
During the initial stages, the only symptom may be restlessness, particularly at night. Often the first thing an owner will notice is that the affected fish no longer school with the others. Eventually swimming becomes more erratic, and it becomes quite obvious that the fish is not well.

 

[Delapool]

Out of interest I've had a hunt for timing on this. The best I could find in a quick search was '3 days from when symptoms are first noticed'.

Idk, would that mean a week incubation in general terms? So maybe 10 days total??

 

[Ricky 1]

I would say that's about right, it starts going down hill when the protozoan breaks through the intestine wall..........

 

[treemanone2003]

Out of interest I've had a hunt for timing on this. The best I could find in a quick search was '3 days from when symptoms are first noticed'.

Idk, would that mean a week incubation in general terms? So maybe 10 days total??

Coupled with the fact that neons top out in the mid 70° range and there in a Discus tank that the op has stated in previous threads the temp is in the mid 80° range. From that we can presume the fish are super stressed, which results in being more susceptible to diseases and premature deaths. Better research would show that neons are horrible tank mates for Discus. It's found on many Discus forums.


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[PNWaquarist]

Good call. I didn't even think of that.

Cardinals are much more heat-resistant than Neons, and many folks keep them with discus.

 

[Angela1108]

I love cardinals. I think they are way more hearty than neons in general!


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[Rumpolphoreskin]

Just for fun I've compared my LFS to Petsmart.
Weird how they seem to get shipments of the same fish on the same day.

For some purchases I'll pay extra to patronize the LFS, but if Petsmart has the same fish that came in the same day for half the price I'll gamble on Petsmart.
I'm sure this sentiment is not popular but I find it practical.

One caveat for the OP:
I'd avoid adding more than five (5) fish per tank per week.
Also as stated above Neons, though they look like Cardinals, have a different range in ideal temperature and water hardness.

For what it's worth.

 

[ppo8820]

Neons are fragile and I hate to say it, but Petsmart is rough on fish and often sells sick fish (due to all their tanks being on the same filter/water supply). Any time you buy from a large petstore chain, you risk things like this. I would be happy the Discus arent going belly up since you could have introduced any array of diseases. Did you test you water?

 

[PNWaquarist]

Neons are fragile mostly because they've been heavily inbred over the past few decades to keep up with demand. They were hardier back in the day.

 

[Delapool]

This is a little bit of a sideline but I've been hunting more on timing for NTD. To be honest I've not been convinced that it is as common as threads suggest. Plain old bacterial (FNTD) or just being hard to keep I've put a few down to. We've just had the first heat wave here and promptly lost a cardinal tetra that had been fine I thought for months. Anyways what I wanted to find was how long should they be QT'd for and also is it possible to pick NTD from FNTD. I've copied reading I did below. If this is correct or incorrect, would appreciate any thoughts.

First link provides some details on telling NTD vs FNTD apart. My neons that had cotton-mouth did show colour loss fading mostly from mouth back to tail. However there were also a few with patches of colour loss from memory.

Neon Tetra Disease; Sporozoan Fish Infection

Second link has a little bit on timing for QT. I assume(?) tank temp would also play a part in a similar fashion to ich life cycle?

"affected zebrafish exhibited massive infections in the skeletal muscle"

"The parasitic infection in the single fish from Lab 1 was limited to the skeletal muscles; however in the fish from the other two laboratories, spores within phagocytes were also detected in various other organs, including the kidney interstitium, spleen, ovaries, intestine, and mesenteries."

"Both moribund zebrafish collected from the group exposed to infected neon tetra tissue exhibited massive muscle infections based on wet mount observations at 20 days postexposure. Histological examination of the remaining fish collected at 30 days showed infections in five of eight fish. These fish had light infections exhibiting various stages of development."

"As with other microsporidia, it is assumed that infection is initiated by ingestion of spores. Spores released from dead fish are a likely source of infection, but could also be released from the intestines. Schäperclaus (1941) suggested that spores may be released from the skin or urinary tract of infected fish."

But .....

"The infected fish from Lab 1 was the 13-month-old offspring of a female fish that had been purchased from an outside vendor and brought into the laboratory. If this fish was infected as an embryo, this would mean that the fish was subclinically infected for more than 1 year. Even if the fish had not been infected as an embryo but instead at a later time through accidental cross-contamination with an infected fish from the group purchased from the vendor, it indicates that this fish was subclinically infected for more than 7 months."


" it is likely that immune status influences susceptibility of zebrafish to P. hyphessobryconis. Recently, Ramsay et al.(Ramsay et al 2009) showed that stress enhances infections of P. neurophilia in zebrafish."



Pleistophora hyphessobryconis (Microsporidia) infecting zebrafish (Danio rerio) in research facilities

 

[Pipsqueakkk]

I have a neon that is shorter and fatter than the rest and has developed a grey spot. What is it?


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[candymancan]

Justr an update the next batch of 10 neons.. not one died... sooo weird lol