Why are the new fish dying?

[JBsDad]

We just finished a fishless cycle. Friday morning we bought 6 head and tailight tetras for the tank. They have been fine until this morning. I got up and counted them to find one dead and another dying. The rest are no longer swimming in a group.

29 gallon long
Temp: 77°
Ammo: 0ppm
No2: 0ppm
No3: <10ppm
pH: 7.4-7.6

I know the pH is a bit high for this type of fish, but I read in several places that they would be fine in a pH over 7. Is it the pH? The water is crystal clear. I just can't believe JB's fish are dying again after waiting so long for the fishless cycle to finish. I need some help here.

 

[librarygirl]

I'm sorry to hear about your fish. I'm still new at this too so I won't be able to give much help. Your water parameters look good. How did you acclimate the new fish to the tank? Also do you have some surface agitation or an air stone? Are they hanging around the top or gasping for air? Have you fed them and how much? Possibly they were overfed and have some swim bladder issues? Could also just be bad stock from where you bought them from. You said one is "dying"...what is it doing (e.g. bobbing on its side, swimming erratically, gasping, fins clamped, etc)? Someone more experienced should be along to help but the extra details might help others pin down the issue.

 

[jcolon]

Sorry to hear about your fish dying .. I hope the rest make it.

How did you test your water? If you used strips (notoriously unreliable) your numbers may not be accurate. API test Master kit? If so then your parameters are fine.

Second question, where did you get the fish? Your LFS? I'm thinking if they use the same water source as you, then the pH should be the same. Unless of course they soften their water? In that case, members here us a drip method to slowly acclimate new fish to your tank's pH.

Let's also consider it was bad stock to begin with.

 

[JBsDad]

Water is tested using the API Master Freshwater Test Kit. We have a HOB Whisper 30 filter which agitates the surface and two airstones. Fish were aclimated by hanging the bag in the tank for 30 minutes then slowly adding small amounts of tank water every 15 minutes for about an hour until the volumn of water in the bag was twice what it started out at.
The fish that was dying is now dead too. It was not floating or sinking but just suspending tail down and sometimes turning sideways then struggling to right itself again. I don't know what clamped fins means.
Of the four remaining fish, two are zipping around the tank like everything is fine, one is suspending near the bottom in a corner, but does not appear to be struggling, and the last is suspending in the middle of the tank near a corner and also appears not to be struggling. There appears to be no gasping for air and they are moving their fins to hold their position.
Over-feeding...I suppose that's possible, but I only gave them a very tiny pinch of food each evening. I don't really know how much to feed them.

Edit: the fish were bought at Pet Supplies Plus.

 

[JBsDad]

Edit: The fish were bought at Pet Supplies Plus.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Sorry to hear about your fish loss, but it looks like you've done everything right and I wouldn't put any blame on yourself.

Your pH is fine and acclimation would have adjusted them properly to your tank. Everything else looks good tank wise too and it could be as simple as bad stock. I had some Cards die on me (1 on the way home) and later found out that fresh caught didn't acclimate well to aquarium life. I got some farm raised and they're doing great.

You should take them back to the store with the ones that aren't looking too good and ask for replacements. I'd also suggest you take a sample of tank water in a small container so you can show them you've done everything right by your fish.

 

[Deckape]

Sorry to hear about your fish loss, but it looks like you've done everything right and I wouldn't put any blame on yourself.

Your pH is fine and acclimation would have adjusted them properly to your tank. Everything else looks good tank wise too and it could be as simple as bad stock. I had some Cards die on me (1 on the way home) and later found out that fresh caught didn't acclimate well to aquarium life. I got some farm raised and they're doing great.

You should take them back to the store with the ones that aren't looking too good and ask for replacements. I'd also suggest you take a sample of tank water in a small container so you can show them you've done everything right by your fish.

I agree. Seems like you did everything right to me. Sorry this happened and at a really bad time too. Maybe lower your temp a few degrees to about 73. Just a thought. Sorry buddy.

 

[eco23]

I'm also very sorry to hear this :-(. As the others have said, the blame is not on you or your water. Unfortunately many of the fish from chain stores are just weak stock and die quickly for what seems like no reason whatsoever. The tank and water parameters are all pristine, and that is the only cause IMO.

The only thing I would suggest for the future is to either upgrade or add an additional filter to your tank. In another example of companies not accurately representing the needs of fish...a filter that says it is for 30 gallons is not usually efficient for a 29 gallon tank. I think most people usually try to add double the filtration that is stated as required. For example, on my 48 gallon tank I have a Fluval 405 canister filter which is rated for 100 gallons. The GPH (gallons per hour) rating is really whats important, but I'll let a more experienced member with those numbers fill you in.

I don't believe it has any reflection on this particular situation...but it will definitely help keep the tank stable and healthy in the future.

 

[Bud]

Please don't beat yourself up. Looks like you did everything right. As has been stated, seems like you got some bad stock.

Sorry to hear about your FIL too. May God give your family the strength to get through this tough time.

 

[Deckape]

I'm also very sorry to hear this :-(. As the others have said, the blame is not on you or your water. Unfortunately many of the fish from chain stores are just weak stock and die quickly for what seems like no reason whatsoever. The tank and water parameters are all pristine, and that is the only cause IMO.

The only thing I would suggest for the future is to either upgrade or add an additional filter to your tank. In another example of companies not accurately representing the needs of fish...a filter that says it is for 30 gallons is not usually efficient for a 29 gallon tank. I think most people usually try to add double the filtration that is stated on required. For example, on my 48 gallon tank I have a Fluval 405 canister filter which is rated for 100 gallons. The GPH (gallons per hour) rating is really whats important, but I'll let a more experienced member with those numbers fill you in.

I don't believe it has any reflection on this particular situation...but it will definitely help keep the tank stable and healthy in the future.

That's true. Maybe get an Aquaclear 50. That will be the ticket in your tank running parallel to your other filter. It shouldn't cost but about 40 bucks, cheaper online sometimes. That way if anything happens to either filter you'd be covered. Hoping you and JB are ok otherwise.

 

[JBsDad]

I found another LFS that's locally owned. I took a water sample in and she tested it as well. She wasn't clear on fishless cycling so I explained it to her. She listened patiently to how I performed the cycle, asked a few questions and agreed that the tank had certainly been cycled. She didn't scoff at the idea and clearly understood how it would work. According to her tests (she uses the API Master kit as well) her readings matched mine. She said there was no reason at all for the two fish to have died. She recommended lowering the pH slightly, and very slowly and also made it clear that pH shock was not the cause of death, nor was over-feeding. She believes the fish were not in good health when I bought them.
Another thing that impressed me was the fact that she did not ever try to sell me a single thing. When she mentioned maybe lowering the pH, I had to ask her what to use. She asked me if I used aquarium salt and I said no. She went on to something else and I had to back her up and ask her if she used it. She said she uses it in every tank, so I had to ask for it. What I'm getting at is the fact that she wasn't just trying to sell me stuff.

As a side note, we are getting a bigger filter system.
But, in the end, she said there was absolutly no reason for those fish to have died, and that made me feel better. And as an update, the last four are grouped together and swimming around just fine. In fact, I don't know if fish play, but I swear they were playing in the bubbles from the small airstone. They would swim through it, then turn and swim back again. JB and I both got a good chuckle out of it.

 

[JBsDad]

Oh, one more thing. She said to always test for ammo at the bottom of the tank. Ammonia is heavier than water and will affect bottom dwellers first. She was right too. I tested the water at the bottom and found the tiniest trace of ammonia, not quite .25ppm, but it was there.

 

[eco23]

Oh, one more thing. She said to always test for ammo at the bottom of the tank. Ammonia is heavier than water and will affect bottom dwellers first. She was right too. I tested the water at the bottom and found the tiniest trace of ammonia, not quite .25ppm, but it was there.

I think that's more a result of inadequate filtration. The tank should be entirely turning over x times per hour and prevent that from happening. Aquarium salt should only be used for treating illness, and there are many fish that are absolutely intolerant to it. Also, as long as you acclimate the fish properly (which you did), there is 0 reason for altering your pH. It is a slippery slope and will only cause problems in the future. Sounds like the employee was well intentioned and somewhat open minded...but I strongly recommend against everything she said. A new filter is going to be a necessary item though.

 

[jcolon]

Again ... sorry to hear about your fish. You did all the the right procedures, unfortunately, It appears that bad stock is to blame for the fish dying.

with eco23, a more potent filter will thoroughly cycle the water and effectively mix it so the ammonia concentrations should be uniform throughout the tank.

I also agree with him that there's no need to alter your pH since you acclimated your fish properly.

It is good to hear the remaining fish are doing fine.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Agreed about lowering pH. Raising it is relatively easy, lowering it and keeping it stable is a tricky issue at best (I tried). Leave it alone is my best recommendation.

You can never have too much filtration so if you decide to add another HOB, it never hurts and ammo at the bottom is an indicator that additional filtration would help IMO.

 

[JBsDad]

I guess one question I have is: Does anyone else test ammo at the bottom of the tank? I'm sorry, but there is no way that every trace of ammonia from decaying left-over food at the bottom of the tank would immediately vanish. The intake tube for my HOB doesn't go clear to the bottom. Adding a larger filter system will create more current in the tank, which the fish already avoid by staying on the right side of the tank. Maybe I should go with my sisters recommendation and find an under gravel filter to go with my HOB.
As for completely disregarding the LFS ladies advice, I won't do that. I don't put all of my eggs in one basket (only accepting advice from this site as an example). The tanks I saw there were clean, and she obviously cared about the fish.
She wasn't out to make a buck. In fact, I think I spent a total of $8 as compared to the $20 or $30 Pet Supplies Plus would have tried to sell me. My gut tells me I can trust the advice of a person who has cared for over 50 tanks for years.
Look, I'm not trying to be defensive here, but I own and admin a website of my own. If I thought someone was using my site as a know-all, end-all source of information about gardening, I would be the first to tell them to seek additional advice. I certainly wouldn't advise them to disregard the advice of a knowledgable professional.
And on that note, I have begun lowering the pH extremely slowly. I am following the advice of both my sister who has many, many tanks and the lady at the LFS. I am also adding aquarium salt very slowly on the advice of the same people. If it's any consolation, they both disagree with fishless cycling, but on that score I used this sites advice, and defended it.
One final note, all four remaining fish are doing great and are darting about like they don't have a care in the world. We are getting 2 replacement head and tail lights tomorrow to bring the school back up to 6.

 

[eco23]

I guess one question I have is: Does anyone else test ammo at the bottom of the tank? I'm sorry, but there is no way that every trace of ammonia from decaying left-over food at the bottom of the tank would immediately vanish. The intake tube for my HOB doesn't go clear to the bottom. Adding a larger filter system will create more current in the tank, which the fish already avoid by staying on the right side of the tank. Maybe I should go with my sisters recommendation and find an under gravel filter to go with my HOB.
As for completely disregarding the LFS ladies advice, I won't do that. I don't put all of my eggs in one basket (only accepting advice from this site as an example). The tanks I saw there were clean, and she obviously cared about the fish.
She wasn't out to make a buck. In fact, I think I spent a total of $8 as compared to the $20 or $30 Pet Supplies Plus would have tried to sell me. My gut tells me I can trust the advice of a person who has cared for over 50 tanks for years.
Look, I'm not trying to be defensive here, but I own and admin a website of my own. If I thought someone was using my site as a know-all, end-all source of information about gardening, I would be the first to tell them to seek additional advice. I certainly wouldn't advise them to disregard the advice of a knowledgable professional.
And on that note, I have begun lowering the pH extremely slowly. I am following the advice of both my sister who has many, many tanks and the lady at the LFS. I am also adding aquarium salt very slowly on the advice of the same people. If it's any consolation, they both disagree with fishless cycling, but on that score I used this sites advice, and defended it.
One final note, all four remaining fish are doing great and are darting about like they don't have a care in the world. We are getting 2 replacement head and tail lights tomorrow to bring the school back up to 6.

Good luck to you. I have advice and answers...but I'll let you gather them from a different source. I hope everything works out for you and your fish

 

[spoonman]

IF the remaining ones are healthy, why are you adding salt...etc.?

 

[JBsDad]

Good luck to you. I have advice and answers...but I'll let you gather them from a different source. I hope everything works out for you and your fish

Hmmm, sorry to offend. It wasn't my intention, but if that's how it was taken, so be it.

 

[abrage22]

You think your pH is high, I have new tetras in a pH of about 8.4. They've been fine the few days I've had them...