Malawi cichlid tank suggestions????

[Jacobsal91]

You are talking about underwater gallery's cichlid stones
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They are kind of expensive, but they are awesome. This place has the bulk boxes the cheapest and you can sign up for their email coupons. The cichlid stone are light weight so rock slides aren't as bad. Plus I dropped one into the bottom of a nearly empty tank (it's cleaning a large fish tank when you are barely 5ft tall). I was afraid to look thinking that I must have cracked it, but it was fine.

As for overstocking that is something you should wait to do until your tank has been set up for awhile. You also need to have really good filtration.

That is correct, As for overstocking the tank should be well established to determine you water is stable and safe for larger numbers of fish, by waiting for tank to be well cycled and such ensures good water quality so this way u wont lose fish.

 

[jondamon]

Hi Jesse

The over filtration IMO is just for clearer water.

You are correct in your explanation that basically if you have an overstocked tank regardless of how many filters or how big the filters are its the waste produced by the fish that create the nitrates.

However due to how messy cichlids can be the extra filtration areas could be filled with more mechanical filtration to trap debris and fine particles etc to keep your water clearer.


Jon

 

[RLBeausoleil]

What's does over filtration do for the overstocking of the fish I mean it's not going to make it so the nitrates stay any lower right? I mean good filtration is a plus and my filter pushes 350gph so that seems like more then enough already (it's rated for up to 70 gallons). But wouldn't an overstocked tank benefit from more frequent and larger water changes more then it would from over filtration? I mean I guess if enough ammonia was being produced by the fish that the bacteria couldn't keep up with converting it into nitrite then nitrate I could see a scientific explanation there but I think people forget you can filter the water all you want it's not going to make the nitrate build up any slower am I correct in this line of thinking? Correct me if I'm off point but does this make any sense to anyone else? I have a c220 marine land canister filter just sitting around but to be honest I don't like the canister filters I prefer the hanging over the back ones prob just because I have more experience with them.

Overstocking takes experience, an established tank and much better filtration then a simple cheap over the back filter. More and larger water changes don't work. The bacteria you're talking don't just hang around on surfaces they float in the water. So when you remove water you also remove bacteria, which is why even a basic book on aquarium keeping warns against large water changes.
To successfully overstock a tank you can't just keep more fish in the same amount of water. That would lead to disease or at the very least ugly stunted fish. If you plan to overstock you need to run a large sump/refugium (the kind of filtration setup usually seen on a saltwater aquarium). This adds water volume, while keeping your fish in the same sized living area.

 

[Jesselav1233]

Overstocking takes experience, an established tank and much better filtration then a simple cheap over the back filter. More and larger water changes don't work. The bacteria you're talking don't just hang around on surfaces they float in the water. So when you remove water you also remove bacteria, which is why even a basic book on aquarium keeping warns against large water changes.
To successfully overstock a tank you can't just keep more fish in the same amount of water. That would lead to disease or at the very least ugly stunted fish. If you plan to overstock you need to run a large sump/refugium (the kind of filtration setup usually seen on a saltwater aquarium). This adds water volume, while keeping your fish in the same sized living area.

See now I've read and heard from multiple people that its a myth that a substantial amount of bacteria lives In the water and that it only exists in substantial amounts in the filter and along the Walls and in the substrate. I've also read that cichlids (this was well I was reading about discus but have heard that it pertains to most cichlids) release large amounts of hormones that actually stunts their growth and they require large water changes to remain healthy and grow to optimum size. I know Asian discus breeder do 100% water changes daily to their fish! Crazy right! Anyone else agree?

 

[Jesselav1233]

And honestly I'll say my penguin filter is awesome call it cheap if u want but I have 6 happy healthy discus and that's the only filter on their tank and they are some of the pickiest freshies out there

 

[Jesselav1233]

Hi Jesse

The over filtration IMO is just for clearer water.

You are correct in your explanation that basically if you have an overstocked tank regardless of how many filters or how big the filters are its the waste produced by the fish that create the nitrates.

However due to how messy cichlids can be the extra filtration areas could be filled with more mechanical filtration to trap debris and fine particles etc to keep your water clearer.

Jon

Hey are u referring to things like U.V sterilizers when u say mechanical filtration I've been debating buying one for the discus maybe I'll get one for the Malawi cichlids tank?

 

[RLBeausoleil]

See now I've read and heard from multiple people that its a myth that a substantial amount of bacteria lives In the water and that it only exists in substantial amounts in the filter and along the Walls and in the substrate. I've also read that cichlids (this was well I was reading about discus but have heard that it pertains to most cichlids) release large amounts of hormones that actually stunts their growth and they require large water changes to remain healthy and grow to optimum size. I know Asian discus breeder do 100% water changes daily to their fish! Crazy right! Anyone else agree?

Even in a high school microbiology course one would learn that the microbial load of liquid is significantly larger in comparison to that of a solid surface. When a material is in a solid state it offers a two dimensional plan for a colony to populate. A substance in a liquid state offers three dimensional area equal to the liquid's volume.
Also have you personally ever looked at your aquarium's water under a microscope. I'm working on my BSN taking AP and honors courses, because depending on my son's health I'm either going on to a MSN program or to medical school. Anyway last semester my professor had us bring in five water samples for a lab. I just grabbed samples from some of my aquariums. It was amazing how much bacterial was living in the water. My aquarium water had a higher load than most of the samples people brought in from creeks puddles and unopened swimming pools.

 

[Jesselav1233]

Even in a high school microbiology course one would learn that the microbial load of liquid is significantly larger in comparison to that of a solid surface. When a material is in a solid state it offers a two dimensional plan for a colony to populate. A substance in a liquid state offers three dimensional area equal to the liquid's volume.
Also have you personally ever looked at your aquarium's water under a microscope. I'm working on my BSN taking AP and honors courses, because depending on my son's health I'm either going on to a MSN program or to medical school. Anyway last semester my professor had us bring in five water samples for a lab. I just grabbed samples from some of my aquariums. It was amazing how much bacterial was living in the water. My aquarium water had a higher load than most of the samples people brought in from creeks puddles and unopened swimming pools.

Well that would make sense the tank is tiny closed ecosystem in comparison with a large natural stream or lake but I don't think my beneficial bacteria takes a huge dive with large water changes. If it did I would think I would see ammonia or nitrite spikes but I never do. What would be interesting is if you could distinguish between just any organism and the bb and really get down to the science of this question but I have heard it doesn't exist in large amounts in the water I assumed differently before I read about it and had others tell me that. I could of coarse be wrong.

 

[jondamon]

Hey are u referring to things like U.V sterilizers when u say mechanical filtration I've been debating buying one for the discus maybe I'll get one for the Malawi cichlids tank?

No by mechanical I was talking about things like filter floss, fine grade sponges etc.



Jon

 

[Wy Renegade]

So lets talk overfiltration a bit. By cycling a tank, what we are doing is establishing a particular bacteria load within that system, be it in the water column, on the filter surfaces, or where ever it may be. That bacteria population is going to vary depending on our bioload in the tank (how often we feed the fish, what type of fish, how much waste they produce, etc.). Regardless of our bioload, the filter can only support so many bacteria (they are limited by living space, just like all other living things). Even if we factor in the entire system, there is only so much area for bacteria to colonize. Those bacteria do what? Right, convert ammonia into nitrites and nitrites into nitrates. So the more surface area we provide (i.e. add additional filtration), the more bacteria we can support, therefore the more biological conversion we can have going on. This assumes of course that the bioload cannot be handled by the bacteria normally found in the system, which is the case in an overstocked tank.

 

[Jesselav1233]

Do u guys think that it's crucial that I overstock to ward off aggression?

 

[garfy]

Please don't let anyone tell you that it's crucial to overstock to thwart aggression.If you have the right mix of fish in the right sized tank all will be fine.In my experience overstocking is only needed for a usually incompatible mix of fish.

 

[Malawi Freak]

Bacteria does not live in water. That statement is wrong. If any is existent in the water it is not a worthy factor in your bioload. Water changes are to dilute nitrates present from your BB breaking down ammonia and nitrites. Excessive filtration is to raise the bioload your tank can handle. Your 350 gph filter is not moving that much water after a couple weeks of buildup on your filter media. You want to aim for 10 times your tank volume in filtration. I am pushing a rated value of 1800 gph from my sump (actually hitting around 1200 after vertical loss from 4' and probably another 100 less from buildup) 500 from my canister (probably hitting around 300 something) and 700 from hobs (probably pushing around 300). I think the actual gph in my tank is around 1700 plus 2 550 gph powerheads. This is in my 125. Even with this amount of filtration I'm still changing between 60-70% every week.

 

[Nimo]

Over filtration is not to keep levels down, and it is not intended to replace water changes, it keeps you water more clear.
It does help keep nitrates from rising quickly in an over stocked tank, it also moves a lot more water pr hour, my 60 gallon tank is filtering at 700 GPH, has 2 70 gallon pinguin bio wheels on it. My water stays crystal clear.

 

[Jesselav1233]

Over filtration is not to keep levels down, and it is not intended to replace water changes, it keeps you water more clear.
It does help keep nitrates from rising quickly in an over stocked tank, it also moves a lot more water pr hour, my 60 gallon tank is filtering at 700 GPH, has 2 70 gallon pinguin bio wheels on it. My water stays crystal clear.

Sounds like we both have the penguin 350 bio wheel filter. Mine keeps my tanks looking pristine I love it well I do have a marine land c220 canister filter rated for up to 50 gals maybe I'll hook it up

 

[Nimo]

Sounds like we both have the penguin 350 bio wheel filter. Mine keeps my tanks looking pristine I love it well I do have a marine land c220 canister filter rated for up to 50 gals maybe I'll hook it up

I have 2 of the pinguin 350s running on mine. One will keep the water pretty good till you get heavy stock then it can't keep up. After I added the second my water stays really clear. I also do 20-30% water changes twice a week to keep nitrates down. My nitrates never get high always around 5-10 I never let it go higher.

Edit: I also pull one filter cartage every water change and rinse it on used tank water when I do the water changes and vacuum the bottom of the tank 2 times a month

 

[Malawi Freak]

Do you have sand or gravel. Vacuuming gravel only 2 times a month isn't very effective if you ask me.

 

[Nimo]

It is gravel, when I vacuum the gravel, I take all decorations out and vacuum the entire floor. During regular water changes I do spot vacuum.

 

[Wy Renegade]

Bacteria does not live in water. That statement is wrong. If any is existent in the water it is not a worthy factor in your bioload. Water changes are to dilute nitrates present from your BB breaking down ammonia and nitrites. Excessive filtration is to raise the bioload your tank can handle. Your 350 gph filter is not moving that much water after a couple weeks of buildup on your filter media. You want to aim for 10 times your tank volume in filtration. I am pushing a rated value of 1800 gph from my sump (actually hitting around 1200 after vertical loss from 4' and probably another 100 less from buildup) 500 from my canister (probably hitting around 300 something) and 700 from hobs (probably pushing around 300). I think the actual gph in my tank is around 1700 plus 2 550 gph powerheads. This is in my 125. Even with this amount of filtration I'm still changing between 60-70% every week.

Well technically your statement is incorrect. Bacteria does in fact live in the water column. You are correct in that it may not be a substantial amount, as the majority of the beneficial bacteria are indeed found adhering to surfaces within the tank, but they do in fact live in the water column.