Old Scales
Aquarium Advice Addict
Me too. I've never had issues with testing and using Prime. OS.
Conas at tu mo cara, Ian. lol
Conas at tu mo cara, Ian. lol
Puzzled
- Thread starter TEXTank
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Ian086
Aquarium Advice Addict
Ta me go maith. Heading out tonight for a few Guinness!!!
Well, I can't get to Prime's website now (server not responding)- I wanted to copy and paste their own instructions regarding Ammonia testing. Perhaps I misinterpreted what it said. It's great to know that folks are using it successfully with the API water test kit. If that is the case, then this becomes a much easier decision. It looks like Prime will do what BOTH Novaqua and Amquel Plus do (requiring 2 products) and it's used at a dose that's 1/5 of the other 2- that will end up saving some money! Thank you
Ian086
Aquarium Advice Addict
I think it may be something about dosing Prime and then testing the water soon after. I think it may state that although It will show ammonia(if present), the ammonia is 'locked'(safe) for 24hrs. I could be wrong, if someone wishes to correct me, please do....Well, I can't get to Prime's website now (server not responding)- I wanted to copy and paste their own instructions regarding Ammonia testing. Perhaps I misinterpreted what it said. It's great to know that folks are using it successfully with the API water test kit. If that is the case, then this becomes a much easier decision. It looks like Prime will do what BOTH Novaqua and Amquel Plus do (requiring 2 products) and it's used at a dose that's 1/5 of the other 2- that will end up saving some money! Thank you
Here's the text from Prime's website:
Frequently Asked Questions regarding Prime:
Q. I am using Prime to control ammonia but my test kit says it is not doing anything; in fact, it looks like I added ammonia, what is going on?
A. To avoid false readings of ammonia, use Seachem's MultiTest Ammonia kit (item #901231). It uses a gas exchange sensor system that is not affected by the presence of Prime or other similar products. It also has the added advantage that it can detect the more dangerous free ammonia and distinguish it from total ammonia (which is both the free and ionized forms of ammonia (the ionized form is not toxic).
Just got back from a quick trip to Petsmart with Prime in hand. 3 mL went in to treat my 29 gallon tank. I'll wait until tomorrow morning to test and post results. Thanks for all of the help
Frequently Asked Questions regarding Prime:
Q. I am using Prime to control ammonia but my test kit says it is not doing anything; in fact, it looks like I added ammonia, what is going on?
A. To avoid false readings of ammonia, use Seachem's MultiTest Ammonia kit (item #901231). It uses a gas exchange sensor system that is not affected by the presence of Prime or other similar products. It also has the added advantage that it can detect the more dangerous free ammonia and distinguish it from total ammonia (which is both the free and ionized forms of ammonia (the ionized form is not toxic).
Just got back from a quick trip to Petsmart with Prime in hand. 3 mL went in to treat my 29 gallon tank. I'll wait until tomorrow morning to test and post results. Thanks for all of the help
Ian086
Aquarium Advice Addict
Firstly, you shouldn't be using Prime to 'control' Ammonia. You filter should=d be dealing with Ammonia. Prime can be used to neutralise Ammonia in an emergency situation but only for 24hrs.Here's the text from Prime's website:
Frequently Asked Questions regarding Prime:
Q. I am using Prime to control ammonia but my test kit says it is not doing anything; in fact, it looks like I added ammonia, what is going on?
A. To avoid false readings of ammonia, use Seachem's MultiTest Ammonia kit (item #901231). It uses a gas exchange sensor system that is not affected by the presence of Prime or other similar products. It also has the added advantage that it can detect the more dangerous free ammonia and distinguish it from total ammonia (which is both the free and ionized forms of ammonia (the ionized form is not toxic).
Just got back from a quick trip to Petsmart with Prime in hand. 3 mL went in to treat my 29 gallon tank. I'll wait until tomorrow morning to test and post results. Thanks for all of the help
Secondly, you have to bear in mind, companies like to sell their OWN products!!!
I am TRYING to control the Ammonia with water changes and restoration of the Biological Filter. The complication here is that my tap water has 0.5-1.0 Ammonia in it, which is also what my tank is testing at. Common sense says that adding Ammonia to the tank is NOT going to eliminate Ammonia. My tap water HAS to be treated with something before adding it to my tank. Basically, I cannot tell at this point if I am making progress or not. I just dosed with Prime. Nitrite dropped to 0. (Reduction). Nitrate stable at 10-20 (no change). Ammonia still testing at 0.5-1.0 (no change).
I agree that companies want to promote (and sell) their own products. Here is the info from Seachem's website:
"MultiTest: Ammonia
Product Description
This kit measures total (NH3 and NH4+) and free ammonia (NH3 only) down to less than 0.05 mg/L and is virtually interference free in marine and fresh water. Free ammonia is the toxic form of ammonia (vs. ionized Ammonia NH4+ which is non-toxic) and thus it is much more important to keep an eye on the level of free ammonia in your system. This kit is based on the same gas exchange technology that is used in the Ammonia Alert™ and thus is the only kit on the market that can read levels of free ammonia while using ammonia removal products such as Prime®, Safe™, AmGuard™ and any similar competing products. The other kits (salicylate or Nessler based) determine the total ammonia by raising the pH of the test solution to 12 or greater. At this high pH all ammonia removal products will breakdown and rerelease the ammonia, thus giving you a false ammonia reading."
Is this BS? I want (and need) to test for Ammonia. I cannot, however, make informed decisions about what is happening in MY tank using MY water with inaccurate results. I'm just trying to figure it all out. Thanks.
OS, as I'm trying to figure this out, I realized that I overlooked an important point in your post. You have stated that if my tank is testing the same Ammonia level as my tap water, the Biological filter is working properly. If it's really that simple, then it looks like I am in good shape (last test Ammonia same as tap, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 10-20). I guess I was under the impression that if the filter was functioning properly, ALL Ammonia would be removed and the test result should be 0. The Seachem test seems to be able to discriminate between different types of Ammonia (and perhaps provide individual readings?). Thanks for your help.
threnjen
Aquarium Advice Addict
The filter should be able to remove all ammonia.
You can use Prime with the API test.
Let me try to make this super simple (I tend to over explain) -
Your water actually has a mixture of ammonia and ammonium. Free Ammonia NH3 is toxic to fishes. Ammonium is not.
The API test tells you your TAN = Total Ammonia Nitrogen = Ammonia NH3 + Ammonium NH4
The amount of Free Ammonia (NH3) in the water is a function of the pH and the temperature - that is all. Therefore, you can find out exactly how much you have by a chart if you know your total ammonia (such as the API test tells you)
The higher pH (alkaline), the higher the Free Ammonia.
As pH drops toward acid, it produces "somethings" that the Free Ammonia like, and the Free Ammonia grabs these "somethings" and becomes Ammonium, instantly.
The same happens in reverse. If the pH goes up the Ammonium lets go of the "somethings" and becomes Free Ammonia again.
Prime detoxifies Free Ammonia by adding "somethings" to the water that the Free Ammonia can grab, turning it into Ammonium for a little while.
The API test kit works by making the pH so high that all Ammonium lets go of "somethings" and becomes Free Ammonia, and then the kit measures this level.
All of this is an info dump - what you really want to know is your level of Free Ammonia, and if your fish are in danger. Luckily the amount of Free Ammonia is actually just mathematical and you don't need a special test.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html
This post has charts. Find your TAN (total ammonia from the API test), your pH, and your temp and it will tell you how much toxic ammonia is in your system.
All that said, very few people make it this complicated. Usually we all just try to keep TAN at a reasonable level. I understand your position though - your tap has high ammonia, and you are worried.
The GOOD NEWS is that at any reasonable pH, 1ppm TAN is not going to be toxic to your fishes. Other forum members do try to get people to change water at .25 total TAN, but that's not possible for you.
Just try not to let it rise over 1ppm and be worse than your tap.
Sorry if this was too much, I'm just trying to help clarify. I probably didn't make it super simple like I hoped. Please feel free to ask questions if I can clarify something.
This forum Prime and the API test kit probably both have a 90% market share, we all use those two together
You can use Prime with the API test.
Let me try to make this super simple (I tend to over explain) -
Your water actually has a mixture of ammonia and ammonium. Free Ammonia NH3 is toxic to fishes. Ammonium is not.
The API test tells you your TAN = Total Ammonia Nitrogen = Ammonia NH3 + Ammonium NH4
The amount of Free Ammonia (NH3) in the water is a function of the pH and the temperature - that is all. Therefore, you can find out exactly how much you have by a chart if you know your total ammonia (such as the API test tells you)
The higher pH (alkaline), the higher the Free Ammonia.
As pH drops toward acid, it produces "somethings" that the Free Ammonia like, and the Free Ammonia grabs these "somethings" and becomes Ammonium, instantly.
The same happens in reverse. If the pH goes up the Ammonium lets go of the "somethings" and becomes Free Ammonia again.
Prime detoxifies Free Ammonia by adding "somethings" to the water that the Free Ammonia can grab, turning it into Ammonium for a little while.
The API test kit works by making the pH so high that all Ammonium lets go of "somethings" and becomes Free Ammonia, and then the kit measures this level.
All of this is an info dump - what you really want to know is your level of Free Ammonia, and if your fish are in danger. Luckily the amount of Free Ammonia is actually just mathematical and you don't need a special test.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/your-guide-to-ammonia-toxicity-159994.html
This post has charts. Find your TAN (total ammonia from the API test), your pH, and your temp and it will tell you how much toxic ammonia is in your system.
All that said, very few people make it this complicated. Usually we all just try to keep TAN at a reasonable level. I understand your position though - your tap has high ammonia, and you are worried.
The GOOD NEWS is that at any reasonable pH, 1ppm TAN is not going to be toxic to your fishes. Other forum members do try to get people to change water at .25 total TAN, but that's not possible for you.
Just try not to let it rise over 1ppm and be worse than your tap.
Sorry if this was too much, I'm just trying to help clarify. I probably didn't make it super simple like I hoped. Please feel free to ask questions if I can clarify something.
This forum Prime and the API test kit probably both have a 90% market share, we all use those two together
Threnjen, that is AWESOME! A simple way to determine the NH3 from the API test kit results. I just wish you had sent it an hour ago, as I just ordered one of the Seachem kits. Fortunately, it was only $17 on Amazon. It will be interesting to compare its test results with the chart data. THANK YOU for your help. That post should help me get things back under control. An initial look shows that my tank is ok, which explains why all of the inhabitants still appear healthy and happy.
threnjen
Aquarium Advice Addict
Well hey, you'll at least have the most accurate results, instead of the chart. I actually think that in your specific situation, this isn't a bad idea. When you're getting ammonia from the tap I don't blame you for wanting to have more detailed info.
I hope I at least reassured you that your fish aren't actually swimming around in that much free ammonia (1ppm).
Again though around the forum we try not to make it that complicated, so most people don't even know about the whole Free Ammonia/Ammonium thing at all. I think a lot of people just think the .25 API test reading means .25 Free Ammonia and their fish are in urgent danger.
Any free ammonia really is not ideal for fish so usually I just let it go rather than info dump on anyone, but with .5-1.0 from the tap I can see you need some help
I hope I at least reassured you that your fish aren't actually swimming around in that much free ammonia (1ppm).
Again though around the forum we try not to make it that complicated, so most people don't even know about the whole Free Ammonia/Ammonium thing at all. I think a lot of people just think the .25 API test reading means .25 Free Ammonia and their fish are in urgent danger.
Any free ammonia really is not ideal for fish so usually I just let it go rather than info dump on anyone, but with .5-1.0 from the tap I can see you need some help
I'm learning more about this than I ever planned on but that's ok too. I just want a nice looking tank with HEALTHY fish. Sometimes, things just AREN'T as simple as they appear on the surface. I appreciate your help very much!
threnjen
Aquarium Advice Addict
You're welcome, glad to help.
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