cycling?

[shanklyred]

Hi, i've just got my first aquarium, it was a friend who gave it to me through his loss of interest. it already had fish in it. i moved it myself and set it up again, waited for the water to heat to 75, then put the fish in. he told me to wait 1 week before i get more fish. i bought ten neons a red fin shark and a plec, to go with 2 clown loaches 2 black skirt tetras 2 flame tetras and a glowlight. the glow light and 5 neons have died. there seems to be a film on the top of the water. i know i need to do a cycle, but how do i do it with the fish i have? i only have 1 tank.???????

 

[Zagz]

What size tank is it? Do you have a test kit? The only way you can cycle with fish is to do lots of water changes and test the water every day.

 

[HooKooDooKu]

yea, LOTS of PWC, possibly every day. I recently cycled a new 10 gallon populated with a single small goldfish and a single rosie red minnow. Every day, the ammonia or nitrite levels were high enough that I had to do a 25% to 50% water change. Occationally because of other things going on, I was forced to skip a day, but each time I did, I could see how the fish suffered a little for it. When we got the gold fish, it already had ammonia burns. I could see those burns were just a little worst when ever I was forced to skip a day of PWC.

In my case (starting from scratch) it took me a full month before the tank cycled where I didn't have to do PWC. With in another month, the ammonia burns were gone.

 

[shanklyred]

What size tank is it? Do you have a test kit? The only way you can cycle with fish is to do lots of water changes and test the water every day.

woke up to another dead neon! my tank is 36"x12"x18". not sure of the capacity? i think its 29/30 gallons, but not sure? i'm going to get a test kit today.

 

[buddha_red]

do a water change asap. The chemicals related to the nitrogen cycle are toxic and that's whats killing your fish.

 

[shanklyred]

thanks buddha red. should i do a complete water change, or just a percentage? i'm off work today to sort this out. the other fish seem happy enough, just the neons keep dying. don't want to lose anymore. the 1 that died this morning .looked like something was trying to eat it? clown loaches are quite big, and i have a plec which is quite small. would any of those fish eat the neons?

 

[buddha_red]

a partial water change is fine, Your tank may be cycling, if so you will need to do water changes daily. Once you have a test kit we will know for sure if your cycling or not. post your results once you have them please.

Ammonia
Nitrites
Nitrates

 

[shanklyred]

no problem, i'll have a test kit by the end of the day. i'll let you know the results. shall i put fish in a bucket when doin water change?

 

[buddha_red]

Do you have a gravel syphon? The fish are fine where they are. leave them in the tank. You just want to remove about 20-30% of the water and then fill the aquarium back up with fresh water. Do not forget to use a dechlorinator.

 

[shanklyred]

yes i have a gravel syphon (i thought it was to clean the gravel lol) and some "tank safe", i'm going to start it now. thanks

 

[shanklyred]

and also....(sorry for being a nuisance) would it be a good idea to rinse my filter in the old tank water while i'm doing the water change?

 

[buddha_red]

yes thats always a good thing to do.

 

[shanklyred]

that was a dirty job lol(cleaning the filter). filters letting more water out now too. waters nearly ready to go in. just heating it up. thanks for your help, and i'll post the results of the water test asap.

 

[buddha_red]

good job on the cleanup. That will go a long way in helping your water conditions.

 

[shanklyred]

thanks, it looks alot better now. here are the results of the water test.

ph=7.5
gh=180
kh=240
no2=0
no3=40

hope that makes sense?
my tank holds around 33g

 

[bluerose]

Did you use a test strip?

You're also missing a test (nitrites I believe).

You know, seeing 40 nitrates makes me think you could have been dealing with old tank syndrome instead of a cycling tank... if the filter and substrate didn't dry out while you were moving the tank, it's possible you had fish that were acclimated to the poorer conditions (high nitrate, wobbly pH) and when you added the new fish, possibly without enough acclimation, they were shocked by the change in quality. Possible-- not for sure. Keep testing.

 

[shanklyred]

bluerose, i have 5 in 1 test strips, they only measure general hardness, carbonate hardness, ph, nitrite(no2), and nitrate(no3).?? there was a good 3 inches of water in the tank when i moved it, and i'm pretty sure the filter didn't dry out. i'll keep testing, and doing water changes. is that how to get nitrates down?

 

[HooKooDooKu]

The test that is missing is the one for ammonia.

I'm familier with the test strips being talked about, and they do not include a test for ammonia.

It seems to be a common opition that test strips are notorious for being very inaccurate. What I've personally experienced is that the "wet" tests (the one were you put some water in a test tube and add a testing agent) are very accurate to measuring small levels (like nitrite and ammonia levels in the 0.1 to 5.0 ppm levels). However, on the flip side, I have found the "wet" tests to be extreamly difficult to properly read the colors at higher levels, and that the test strips are better for high values. At least that's what I experienced while doing a fishless cycle. I could never get an accurate nitrite level for anything much over 2ppm and had to resort to the test strips to see when my nitrite levels started comming down.

 

[shanklyred]

i'm going to get an amonia test tomorrow.. i've just done another 20% wc, and my nitrate levels haven't dropped? i'll keep doing the water changes, but should i increase the volume?

 

[HooKooDooKu]

Keep in mind that those tests are some what logrithmic and not linear. After all, the values go something like:

0.5 ppm
1.0 ppm
2.0 ppm
5.0 ppm
10 ppm
20 ppm
40 ppm

such that one uptick in the reading doubles the value.

With a 20% PWC, you've only lowered the levels by 20%. So if you want to see a change in the reading, you need to do closer to a 50% water change.

The only thing to watch out for with doing large water changes is you want to make sure you go slow so that the fish can acclimate to the new water qualities (such as changes in pH, temperature, etc).