Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[Mr Fisher]

It may not be you. I've had 2 pairs start spawning at an incredibly small size myself. Other then as a fertility check, I just let them have the spawn because I don't want to deal with fry that small at this time. When the parents are young and small, so are the eggs as well as the fry. Too much work in my eyes. If you want to keep them together, just use a divider or remove to another tank and let them grow a bit before working the spawns. If these are not the pairs you want, just separate the pair into 2 sides of the tank or separate tanks so that they don't harass the other fish every time they want to spawn. This gives them some more time to grow before spawning again. Some young breeders will not spawn very frequently at first which is why I prefer to let them get bigger before worrying about keeping the spawns even if they do care for the spawns. I'd rather have them put their energy into growing than spawning.

Hope this helps

Thanks Andy

 

[Gillie]

Andy, how long does it take for eggs to hatch? I put the mystery fish in with a known female(generic stripey silver) that I adopted yesterday and both are cleaning a leaf with vents fully showing so I may have eggs tonight.

 

[sinibotia]

Andy, how long does it take for eggs to hatch? I put the mystery fish in with a known female(generic stripey silver) that I adopted yesterday and both are cleaning a leaf with vents fully showing so I may have eggs tonight.

I'm not Andy but... My last batch of eggs took about 3 days to hatch at 78 degrees. Hopefully that helps.

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[Andy Sager]

Andy, how long does it take for eggs to hatch? I put the mystery fish in with a known female(generic stripey silver) that I adopted yesterday and both are cleaning a leaf with vents fully showing so I may have eggs tonight.

At 78 degrees, the eggs take about 3 days ( 60-72ish hours). Warmer temps will have the eggs hatch sooner and colder temps will delay the hatch. I suggest not rushing the hatch as the higher temps can lead to weaker embryo. I saw this a lot with the fish I had outside 2 years ago in the summer. Once I moved the eggs into the house at 78 degrees ( using a heater), the fry just did so much better.

One of the problems with having Angels breed n leaves is that it's difficult to remove the eggs to check for fertility and virility. I'd get a slate or something removable in there a.s.a.p. so that should they spawn, you can pull the eggs to check these things. Even a piece of PVC pipe will do as long as you can discourage the fish from using the leaf.

 

[Andy Sager]

Today was water change day so I figured I'd give a little update: The F1 guppy fry are doing great. I have quite a mix of sizes and some of the males are just starting to show their gonopodium. These will need to be moved in the next few days. The last Pleco hatch is still going strong. I have the fry in with the parents still and at last count, I have either 38 or 40 fry from the spawn. ( I can't stop the lil buggers from moving when I am counting ) The Penguins and the Black Phantoms have been doing wonderfully so I am now removing the medicine they were treated with when I brought them home. Now, it will be separating the males and females into 2 tanks then conditioning them for spawning. My Sterbai trio hasn't done a thing so I moved them out of the spawning tank and put back in the pair of Albinos that did spawn in that tank a few weeks back. Hopefully I get some fry this time when they spawn.
The Angels are in " fingers crossed" mode. The 1/2 Black spawn still has about 20 +/- fry still swimming. This is similar to their first spawn for me but the ammonia issue may have had something to do with this. Not judging success or failure from this one. I did find the Black/ Black lace pair had spawned the other day and I had left it be as I saw a number of white eggs, just as before, so I wasn't putting too much into this spawn. Today, I saw there were some wigglers on the slate( only about 6 or 8) so just for kicks, I removed the slate with the wigglers and now will see if they swim. I also have 3 more spawns that are due to hatch tomorrow. One is from a Barred Marble pair but the other 2 are from pairs that do have a proven producer in the pair. So I am really hoping to see some swimmers from these. If I get swimmers from all 3 or 4 of these spawns, I'll start doing the happy dance and start believing the worst is behind me. I need spring to show up soon, I want to set up a bunch of tanks outside already.

The 1/2 black experiment is still going. I see some of the fish have darker markings but they have not really turned the 1/2 black color yet so I'm still hoping as they grow, it will set.

Lastly, I took out the divider between the big Zebra Lace veil and Barred Marble veil today so they can spawn if they want. She is an aggressive female so the smaller Black lace veil I had with her just kept getting beaten up so I had to separate them. Sadly, Thursday morning, after 2 weeks of doing fine in with 2 other females, I found that male dead in the tank. Not a scratch on him so I have no idea why. I really wanted some fry from him as he had such an unusual pattern but, oh well.

So that's it for now.

 

[Gillie]

Well look what happens when I leave to buy a breeding slate

 

[Gillie]

Pics help

 

[sinibotia]

Pics help

My gosh those angels are beautiful! I love how they took matters into their own hands

 

[skylane]

I'm the same, I never see it happen to begin with. Looks like they have to parent raise them , or mine just eat em up!!!
But its a spawn, and they look pretty good in a natural state!

Clem

 

[Gillie]

The male has been making passes fertilizing them for about 10 minutes now, making sure that they are good I guess.

If I move the eggs and pair to another tank will they eat them?

 

[PoppaRyno]

The male has been making passes fertilizing them for about 10 minutes now, making sure that they are good I guess.

If I move the eggs and pair to another tank will they eat them?

Ive seen it go both ways... But i find if you can move them together, it can help with that. Are you wanting parent raising?

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[Gillie]

Ive seen it go both ways... But i find if you can move them together, it can help with that. Are you wanting parent raising?

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I would like to give it a try, I'd prefer to have them with parents for a few weeks.

 

[Andy Sager]

Ive seen it go both ways... But i find if you can move them together, it can help with that.

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I'm with Poppa on this but I've seen it not work more than it work. ( Just an FYI.) Since it's a first spawn, if at all possible, I'd leave the fish alone but separate the pair and eggs from the rest of the tank and other fish ( if any are in there) and see if any eggs hatch. If so, you prove fertility. Then, you can move them after the fact to another tank. FYI, once the eggs hatch, there is no need for the parents anymore. All they really do after that point is protect the fry from predators and make you crazy with moving the fry all around the tank. The fry, if any, secrete a sticky substance that adheres them to the breeding surface so moving them is not as difficult as it sounds. Since they are on a leaf, you could just lower a plastic bag over the leaf then either cut it from the stem or take the whole plant and move it to the new tank and the fry should stay put however, even if they do fall off, it's not a big deal. They will just attach to something else in the new tank.

Last little FYI : Parent raising the fry is best done with the breeders in a tank by themselves and not a community tank. My only real issue with doing this is that it then requires a much bigger tank for the breeders and that takes up space. Even a 30" long tank isn't big enough for a typical spawn of 200-300 fry for very long if the parents are in there with them. Forget about for when the spawns get larger with age. You could have spawns of up to 1,000 eggs

Hope this helps

 

[Gillie]

I have just the leaf in the tank now, thanks to them not waiting to be moved and a few sneaky rummynose, half the eggs are gone. I was able to use the nifty suction cup that comes with the new era tropical grazers to secure the leaf to half of a glass top(it didn't agree with the slate) and have an air stone nearby. I also added an almond leaf and a couple alder cones to prevent fungus.

 

[skylane]

I have just the leaf in the tank now, thanks to them not waiting to be moved and a few sneaky rummynose, half the eggs are gone. I was able to use the nifty suction cup that comes with the new era tropical grazers to secure the leaf to half of a glass top(it didn't agree with the slate) and have an air stone nearby. I also added an almond leaf and a couple alder cones to prevent fungus.

I hope it works out for you, the eggs in the pic looked pretty good. That was a good tip by Andy , on how to move the eggs attached to a leaf.[emoji106]
Well after you posted last night , my black veils spawned too, on their same spot , the inlet tube on the intake of my filter. That's two spawns between my pairs in 2-3 days apart [emoji50] the other is my gold and marble pair who just ate the eggs after a day or less...predation in the community tank. I was hoping to get a bit more time to set up the breeders for them, I have been busy with work and family at the moment , but I'm motivated by the way Angels breed and I'm learning a lot from these fish, and of course Andy!!!

Good luck,
Clem

 

[Andy Sager]

I have just the leaf in the tank now, thanks to them not waiting to be moved and a few sneaky rummynose, half the eggs are gone. I was able to use the nifty suction cup that comes with the new era tropical grazers to secure the leaf to half of a glass top(it didn't agree with the slate) and have an air stone nearby. I also added an almond leaf and a couple alder cones to prevent fungus.

Well hopefully at least 1 of those remaining eggs hatch. That's all you need for fertility proof. I haven't used IAL or Alder cones before so hopefully they work for you. The good news is, Angels are such prolific breeders that even if this spawn is a bust, you should have plenty of other opportunities to try with so be prepared.

I hope it works out for you, the eggs in the pic looked pretty good. That was a good tip by Andy , on how to move the eggs attached to a leaf.[emoji106]
Well after you posted last night , my black veils spawned too, on their same spot , the inlet tube on the intake of my filter. That's two spawns between my pairs in 2-3 days apart [emoji50] the other is my gold and marble pair who just ate the eggs after a day or less...predation in the community tank. I was hoping to get a bit more time to set up the breeders for them, I have been busy with work and family at the moment , but I'm motivated by the way Angels breed and I'm learning a lot from these fish, and of course Andy!!!

Good luck,
Clem

Thanks Clem. Glad to share the info. One thing is for sure, you cannot be 100% prepared for Angel spawns. So many times I get spawns on water change day...right BEFORE it's their turn for the water change. But you do your best to be prepared. This is why I try to always have some empty tanks running or water jars at all times. When I don't, I get more spawns than I know what to do with.

 

[Lori Williams]

I have about 150 Angel fry that I am feeding brine shrimp to .How do I transition them to a dry fish food so that I can sell them to our local pet store ?

 

[skylane]

Well hopefully at least 1 of those remaining eggs hatch. That's all you need for fertility proof. I haven't used IAL or Alder cones before so hopefully they work for you. The good news is, Angels are such prolific breeders that even if this spawn is a bust, you should have plenty of other opportunities to try with so be prepared.



Thanks Clem. Glad to share the info. One thing is for sure, you cannot be 100% prepared for Angel spawns. So many times I get spawns on water change day...right BEFORE it's their turn for the water change. But you do your best to be prepared. This is why I try to always have some empty tanks running or water jars at all times. When I don't, I get more spawns than I know what to do with. [emoji38]

Thanks Andy, will do!
I've got some equipment now and tanks about 5 , 10gals and stuff. Just waiting for the wife to come home today from her homeland. We had a trying month her and I, but we remain positive. I got up for work today and found my eye glasses broken, can't see sh.t without them, so I had to go for another pair [emoji38] and had to miss work today.
Nice to see your busy and having some good spawns too, talk to you soon my friend!!!

Clem

 

[Mr Fisher]

I have about 150 Angel fry that I am feeding brine shrimp to .How do I transition them to a dry fish food so that I can sell them to our local pet store ?

I crush brine shrimp flake into a powder and slowly work them up to bigger flakes.

 

[Andy Sager]

I crush brine shrimp flake into a powder and slowly work them up to bigger flakes.

I have about 150 Angel fry that I am feeding brine shrimp to .How do I transition them to a dry fish food so that I can sell them to our local pet store ?

I also crush my Omega One basic flakes into tiny pieces then add a small amount to each feeding of Baby Brine shrimp and with each feeding, increase the amount of flake while decreasing the amount of shrimp. In the end, you have babies eating flake food and not baby brine. It only takes a couple weeks or so to get them off the crushed flakes and into crumbled flakes ( larger pieces than crushed.) For this, I just take the food in my hand then squeeze tight to crush the flakes then sprinkle into the tank. Chances are you will overfeed the first couple times you do this but you just adjust the amount of flakes at the next feeding. If there are still flakes at the bottom of the tank at feeding time, remove these then feed new ( and not as much. )

Hope this helps.