ammo wont budge!!!!!!!!

[Mr. Limpet]

I told him we're gonna have to call in NASA if he can't get that stuff to drop...mathematically it doesn't make sense. I'd still have to place my money on the tap water having ammo. Maybe just a faulty test from the tap. I've missed the tube with drops before...gotta be something like that.

I agree (haha ), but with multiple tests conducted the laws of average are against every test being done incorrectly. It's the bottle of Prime, the ammo bottles, or something hiding in his tank/filter/etc. IMO.

 

[eco23]

I agree (haha ), but with multiple tests conducted the laws of average are against every test being done incorrectly. It's the bottle of Prime, the ammo bottles, or something hiding in his tank/filter/etc. IMO.

I never considered the actual Prime being the issue (though it adds up when the OP says he didn't see the ammo until he started using it). I don't know the chemical makeup of the sulfides, and perhaps they can somehow degrade and appear as something else? Clueless. Doesn't Seachem have a forum? I think I've heard of other members going there and getting some pretty good responses from them.

If it's the same solution and vials he's been using, the API kit wouldnt be on my list of suspects..and I'd think if there was something in the filter (do you mean like a dead fish?), I would still think the pwc would knock the level down.

 

[allaboutfish]

what all should i test today?

 

[eco23]

what all should i test today?

Everything. Ammo from the tap, ammo in the tank as well as no2, no3 and pH in the aquarium.

 

[allaboutfish]

ok will do

 

[eco23]

ok will do

And test it before and after you do a pwc.

 

[jetajockey]

Yup that's the way to do it, start testing everything. I don't think that the API ammonia test differentiates between ammonium and free ammonia. So if the tap water had chloramines which were subsequently broken down and then bound, I'm not sure if that could be considered a false positive. The ammonia is still there, it's just been converted into a less toxic form for a temporary period.

What I'm getting at is dechlorinate your tap water and then test it for ammonia.

 

[allaboutfish]

ok how long should i wait after i dechlorinator?

 

[eco23]

Yup that's the way to do it, start testing everything. I don't think that the API ammonia test differentiates between ammonium and free ammonia. So if the tap water had chloramines which were subsequently broken down and then bound, I'm not sure if that could be considered a false positive. The ammonia is still there, it's just been converted into a less toxic form for a temporary period.

What I'm getting at is dechlorinate your tap water and then test it for ammonia.

For my own knowledge, how would it make a difference testing the tap water before and after adding Prime? If there's ammo in the water (from chloramines) why would it test any different whether it was bound or not from the Prime?

 

[allaboutfish]

tank:
ammo-1.0-2.0
nitrites-0
nitrates-5.0
(same as yesterday)
tap before dechlorinator;
ammo-0
after ill test in a sec.

 

[jetajockey]

For my own knowledge, how would it make a difference testing the tap water before and after adding Prime? If there's ammo in the water (from chloramines) why would it test any different whether it was bound or not from the Prime?

It's possible that there is free ammonia in the tap water, and it's also possible that there is chloramines in the tap water, or both could be possible.

I suggested testing after dechlorinating so that the chloramines (if present) are broken down. The brand of dechlor being used is irrelevant as long as it breaks chloramines down.

The idea is that dechlorinator should remove the chlorine part of the chloramine leaving behind the ammonia part which should show up on subsequent testing.

What I was refering to with Prime is that the api kit doesn't differentiate between free ammonia/ammonium, so if the ammonia is bound by prime temporarily, then sure it's a false positive for free ammonia, but only for a limited amount of time. The ammonia (in the form of ammonium) is still there till it gets consumed by the biofilter, and after 24-48 hours or so it reverts back to free ammonia

 

[allaboutfish]

arg after 10 mins of dechlorinator i tested and it said 0 so i dont know how long it takes for it to show up, but what do yall suggest? i might just take my fish and put them in some buckets and clean under all rocks and shake off my filter and everything, but i dont get how i can have nitrates that come back after pwc and no nitrites but ammo and the ammo stays the same!!!!!!!!!!!! plus none of my fish look sick.

 

[eco23]

It's possible that there is free ammonia in the tap water, and it's also possible that there is chloramines in the tap water, or both could be possible.

I suggested testing after dechlorinating so that the chloramines (if present) are broken down. The brand of dechlor being used is irrelevant as long as it breaks chloramines down.

The idea is that dechlorinator should remove the chlorine part of the chloramine leaving behind the ammonia part which should show up on subsequent testing.

What I was refering to with Prime is that the api kit doesn't differentiate between free ammonia/ammonium, so if the ammonia is bound by prime temporarily, then sure it's a false positive for free ammonia, but only for a limited amount of time. The ammonia (in the form of ammonium) is still there till it gets consumed by the biofilter, and after 24-48 hours or so it reverts back to free ammonia

I think I'm following along, I just don't get how if there is ammonia in the tap water (whether it is free ammonia or part of the chloramines) why it would test any different. I would think if it's in there, it's gonna show up on the test no matter what form it's in. You might be absolutely right, I just don't understand how by being separated from the chlorine it would cause it to test positive only after adding a dechlorinator. Hey, I might learn something today

Also, when I use the term "false positive", it's kind of a broad statement I make to people with fully cycled tanks. I've had people freak out because they do a large pwc and all of a sudden there's ammonia when they test. The reason I use that term is to tell people that it's been rendered non-toxic as long as they used a dechlorinator...and will be swallowed up by the biofilter before the Prime (or other product) is not binding it anymore. I agree that technically, it's not the correct term.

 

[eco23]

arg after 10 mins of dechlorinator i tested and it said 0 so i dont know how long it takes for it to show up, but what do yall suggest? i might just take my fish and put them in some buckets and clean under all rocks and shake off my filter and everything, but i dont get how i can have nitrates that come back after pwc and no nitrites but ammo and the ammo stays the same!!!!!!!!!!!! plus none of my fish look sick.

How large of pwc's have you been doing? I think despite this intriguing scientific mystery, we're losing focus on the fact that 1-2ppm + fish = a very bad situation. I'd immediately do a 75% pwc or 2 back to back 50% pwc's and test after.

 

[allaboutfish]

ill do 2 back to back 50% bc i only have 2, 3 gallon buckets and one has dw in it.

 

[eco23]

ill do 2 back to back 50% bc i only have 2, 3 gallon buckets and one has dw in it.

Sounds good. If after changing that much water you still show ammo...I will be absolutely flabbergasted, lol.

 

[allaboutfish]

so i know what it was i had a rock with a whole in it that my algae eater first clamed as his and then my betta clamed it his, anyway they had about a whole algae pellet hiddien under there and they couldnt eat it bc i put a bubble stone under it so the bubble would come up. i cycloned it up and i think i fixed the problem. i did a 75%-90% water change. anyway do you think that im cycled and that was just too much ammonia for my biofilter to hold? i mean i didnt see nitrites the whole time but i saw nitrates the entire time.

 

[jetajockey]

I think I'm following along, I just don't get how if there is ammonia in the tap water (whether it is free ammonia or part of the chloramines) why it would test any different. I would think if it's in there, it's gonna show up on the test no matter what form it's in.

I'm not totally sure about this either, and unfortunately I don't have chloramines in my tap water to test it out. I'm not sure if the ammonia test would pick up a chloramine compound and consider it ammonia, maybe someone with more chemical knowledge will chime in.

 

[jetajockey]

so i know what it was i had a rock with a whole in it that my algae eater first clamed as his and then my betta clamed it his, anyway they had about a whole algae pellet hiddien under there and they couldnt eat it bc i put a bubble stone under it so the bubble would come up. i cycloned it up and i think i fixed the problem. i did a 75%-90% water change. anyway do you think that im cycled and that was just too much ammonia for my biofilter to hold? i mean i didnt see nitrites the whole time but i saw nitrates the entire time.

Hopefully that's all it was, the only way to really know is to keep testing periodically and see.

 

[eco23]

so i know what it was i had a rock with a whole in it that my algae eater first clamed as his and then my betta clamed it his, anyway they had about a whole algae pellet hiddien under there and they couldnt eat it bc i put a bubble stone under it so the bubble would come up. i cycloned it up and i think i fixed the problem. i did a 75%-90% water change. anyway do you think that im cycled and that was just too much ammonia for my biofilter to hold? i mean i didnt see nitrites the whole time but i saw nitrates the entire time.

I'm not sure (I don't think) 1 algae pellet would cause you to have an ammo spike that high. It also leaves the mystery of why pwc's were not dropping the level. How big of water changes were you doing? Still do the 50% pwc's and post the results for me