Yeah, I agree that for a 2 hour ride I might risk it. However, the pure stuff is pretty widely available online including from Dr. Tim's website. Again though, I'm not saying it's a death sentence or destined to fail...but there's enough reason out there that I wouldn't personally take a chance with it unless it was mandatory.
This is probably better suited for a different thread...but here's a post I typed up a while back on a different site when we were talking about it. (Not the same one I was trying to find...but still researched)
To be fair...I was kind of in a heated debate with a guy on the thread...so it may come off as a bit angry, lol. I'm not trying to start debate here, I'm open to everybody's opinions, I just wanted to post what I found when I researched it pretty deeply a few months ago.
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* "As to the issue of surfactants. A surfactant is any compound that lowers surface tension or the interfacial tension between two materials. So by definition, surfactants ARE detergents.
That said, there are different forms. Some come from natural origins like palm oil or tallow, but a good amount of surfactants found in household cleaners are quaternary ammonium salts which are actually a petroleum based product. In certain brands you may find the natural type of surfactant used...but as far as something as already as abrasive and harsh as a bottle of ammonia...I have my doubts that many companies will go the distance to add a more eco-friendly (and more expensive) form.
The problem with using ammonia containing quaternary ammonium salts is that certain forms will have different properties which are the exact opposite of what you would want in an aquarium. Chief among them is that they are antimicrobial. So much so that they are specifically used as a disinfectant...and are an active ingredient even in products like spermicides! Altered forms are also used in insecticides and herbicides.
Obviously something specifically added to a product which kills bacteria, fungi, viruses, etc...is something that is going to be detrimental to colonizing nitrifying bacteria. I can name examples of cycles not starting off, and realizing that in tiny print...the bottle says "contains surfactants".
On the chance you find a type of pure ammonia which contains a natural surfactant...I wouldn't see an issue. In fact I've heard of people using certain brands containing surfactants without problems. However, on the label...the ingredient is simply listed as "surfactant' without information of the source...so instead of requesting chemical analysis sheets from the manufacturer... IMO, saying to avoid surfactants is the responsible and safest choice to recommend.
As for the type of surfactants commonly used, I think it's fair to say that using a natural source in a bottle of ammonia is not overly common in many cases.
According to OSHA-
Hazard Description
Ammonia is an irritant and corrosive to the skin, eyes, respiratory tract and mucous membranes. Exposure to liquid or rapidly expanding gases may cause severe chemical burns and frostbite to the eyes, lungs and skin. Skin and respiratory related diseases could be aggravated by exposure.
^ Now, adding natural plant extracts to that type of material doesn't seem like a very logical choice. There may be a number of products who do business using the "green" aspect to help move product...and that is likely where the organic products would be used...but again, basically as a marketing tool as opposed to having benefits to the commonly used quaternary ammonium salts. In the brands of ammonia based cleaning products I myself have seen on shelves, the natural ones also tend to contain other additives like scents and dyes in addition to the natural form of surfactants.
I'll post some links associated with surfactants as they relates to cleaning products including ammonia...but another great measurement is simply experience and results. I can name numerous examples of cycles never getting off the ground (even with tons of seeded media) being linked back to the tiny print on bottles which showed they contained surfactants, only to do a total tear down and rebuild with a proven brand and have expected results.
nanoparticles.org/pdfSalager-E300A.pdf
Quaternary ammonium cation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.scienceinthebox.com/en_UK...ctants_en.html
Surfactant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Again, as I said before...there are exceptions to every rule, and there are plenty of cases of certain brands not causing problems (I can think of a few off hand). People are obviously free to experiment with anything they want...but personally I view it as something not worth chancing if there are any other options available."
