Cichlids in a 45?

[DragonGirl]

So pretty soon I'll be setting up both a 25 and a 45 gallon aquarium. I'm making the 25 gallon a community with cories and all that good stuff as well as my current 10 but I'm getting kind of tired of the usual fish. Not to pick on cories, they're adorable, but I really don't want 3 tanks with them. I was originally thinking for the 45 I would do a community with an angelfish, kuhli loaches, some type of larger schooler, a smaler pleco, and a pair of rams but I'm having second thoughts because it sounds a lot like the stock I have planned for the 25.

Which leads me to my questions. I'd like to have a variety of fish so obviously nothing too large or aggressive. Are there more options for communities I've just been missing? But the real question is could I make it a cichlid tank?? Please know I am totally in the dark about cichlids it seems like such a complicated field of aquariums with all the crazy names and such and I just haven't looked into it. I would call myself a pre-beginner in the cichlid world so if you start throwing those long names around I won't follow...

There are lots of new world cichlids on liveaquaria that have a minimum tank size of under 40 gallons but could I keep several types? I don't want a tank with just one species I'd rather have a variety. Like one fish of several species or would that get too violent? What would be recommended for my size tank? The ones listed in liveaquaria are keyhole cichlids, apistos, rams, firemouths, convicts, severums, etc. Would some combination of these work? Suggestions for different cichlids? Some type with a long name? Or should I just stick with my original plan of a basic community?

I would like the fish in this tank to be generally larger than the ones in my other tanks, even if cichlids is a bad idea. I also don't want any fry.

Long post and lots of questions for what I though was a simple subject...Thanks in advance for help!

Also, if this actually belongs in the cichlid section please move it there...

 

[bettaowner]

I'd get some rams, angelfish, or shell dwelling cichlids

 

[Fishperson]

Shell dwellers would be cool, like bettaowner said. Also, firemouths and convicts are really aggressive, I would stear clear of those if you don't want aggressive fish. I have a bolivian ram, and I love it! I would recommend those.

 

[DragonGirl]

I'm putting rams in the 25 so would prefer to do something different. Is there any variety of more colorful cichlids that can live together in such a small tank?

 

[ktomminello]

Panda dwarf cichlids- apistogramma njessi, or other apistos and a school of diamond, bleeding heart or von rio flame tetra?

 

[DragonGirl]

Could I do several types of apistogramma (one or two of each) or would that be a disaster? For example would going on liveaquaria and ordering X number of assorted apistos work or end terribly?

 

[Fishperson]

You could do 2 pairs of 2 different species maybe, but if you had 3+ males of different species it may not end well.

 

[DragonGirl]

Ahhhh I'm totally not prepared for this tank if I it a pair of colorful apistos (type??) what else could I put in there? Any other cichlids I can put with them? Suggested complete stock?

 

[bettaowner]

If you have only one pair you could add some neon tetras and hatchet fish

 

[ktomminello]

Just to add my 2 cents in I would say get a pair of Bolivian or double red agassizi cockatoos and a couple schools of medium bodied tetra (diamond, candy cane, von rio and bleeding heart are my personal faves).

 

[ktomminello]

Just to add my 2 cents in I would say get a pair of Bolivian or double red agassizi cockatoos and a couple schools of medium bodied tetra (diamond, candy cane, von rio and bleeding heart are my personal faves).

Or even 1 school of 3 medium bodied tetra and a school of 5 agassizi cories...

 

[DragonGirl]

Just to add my 2 cents in I would say get a pair of Bolivian or double red agassizi cockatoos and a couple schools of medium bodied tetra (diamond, candy cane, von rio and bleeding heart are my personal faves).

The cockatoos are adorable! Are diamond tetras as pretty as they look in the pictures? I've been thinking about them. Also would those be the only two species I could put in the tank or could I do them with an angelfish and kuhli loaches?

 

[Aquamandan]

Just to add my 2 cents in I would say get a pair of Bolivian or double red agassizi cockatoos and a couple schools of medium bodied tetra (diamond, candy cane, von rio and bleeding heart are my personal faves).

+1 on the Bolivian rams, they are a hardier type of cichlid.

 

[ktomminello]

The cockatoos are adorable! Are diamond tetras as pretty as they look in the pictures? I've been thinking about them. Also would those be the only two species I could put in the tank or could I do them with an angelfish and kuhli loaches?

Diamond tetras, IMO, are the most beautiful tetra- when kept in Amazon tanks, especially when they get big- I would say you would be ok if you were to have a school of 1 large male 2 large female diamonds, a pair of cockatoos, a pair of angels and 3 kuhli... Only thing is you will have to have a lot of dense vegetation along with wide open swim spaces- and with kuhli (I love the creepy little guys) I recommend a skull against a patch of dense balansae with a larger anubias behind it placed on fine sand and anchor roots with rounded river stone... They will make burrows all around it and lounge on the plants and jet through the skull giving a very creepy effect. Also plan on devoting above normal maintenance time daily and mid to low level circulation/ filtration... Or go with a pair of cockatoos, a blushing angel, a male and female pair of diamond tetra and a pair of kuhli... Though it may get too stressful in both situations.

I'd honestly choose either cichlid or angel- though a school of 3 diamond tetra and 3 emperor tetra would look similar to a group of mini angels, and you can get the cockatoo pair and 3 kuhli with success- but I'm not 100% I'm still researching for my 150g Amazon and slowly introducing species to each other as I qt and grow them out... Another possibility would be a single rainbow shark or a single redtail shark in place of the kuhli..

+1 on the Bolivian rams, they are a hardier type of cichlid.

Thank you!! I'm just getting started with sa/ca cichlids and noticed dwarf cichlids are easier to raise than their larger more aggressive cousins i.e. oscars, dempseys, severum etc. plus bolivians are very hearty and more colorful than most

 

[Oohitsae]

There are some types of apistos that are polygomous, one male to multiple females, like apisto trifasciata. The females get a really bright yellow when ready To breed, but are normally a brown color while the males are a pretty blue. There are also other types but can't remember exactly what.

I've always wanted to do a shell dweller tank as well, so I'd suggest that. Lots of pretty shell dwellers.

Only thing is that if you don't want any breeding, then you'll likely have to do females only, and most female cichlids, other than my GBR's aren't very colorful.

 

[DragonGirl]

Ok so no angel that's fine I wasn't very attached to the idea. I can't wait for the kuhli's though. If I do apistos would I have to do either pairs or only females or could I do only males (not a bunch, like 2)?

Also, diamond tetras aren't schooling (as in, I'd have to do the correct M/F ratio)??? Are congo tetras the same way? They look a lot like the diamonds/

I was looking at a rainbow shark but liveaquaria said minimum tank size 50 gallons so I threw that idea out. Is that actually a possibility? I'd love to think about that one I just don't want to put it in too small of a tank.

The reason I'm really hesitant about shell dwellers is because they seem to be such bottom dwellers. They seem really cool but this tank is 2ft tall and having only shell dwellers on the bottom would leave a LOT of empty space in the rest of the tank. Is there something I could put with them that would fill up the rest of the tank?

Is there really no way to prevent cichlids from breeding? I just really don't know what I would do with babies I don't have a bunch of spare tanks for them.

 

[Oohitsae]

Only males probably isn't the best idea, I don't know if they'd be okay without having females around or not, but I'd assume they'd still have to stake out territories and they'd probably over lap somewhere causing issues occasionally. There are some apisto's where females do have some nice color and they are polygomous, I'm just not sure what type. I personally think the best route is multiple females to a single male (maybe 2) if you are okay with breeding, or only females if you don't want any breeding.

No, they are schooling fish, but you don't need to have any specific ratio. Just as long as you have around 6 or more they'll be happy.

A 45 for a rainbow shark may be a tad small, but if it's a long tank rather than taller then you may be able to pull it off. It's only 5 gallons less.

I'm not positive, but I do believe shell dwellers will take up bottom and middle levels, so if you got a schooler that would take up middle-top you'd be in good shape, if you wanted to go that route. Maybe your diamond tetras?

As for breeding, the only way you can positively avoid it is if you make sure you only have 1 sex. But if you did have spawns, almost all apistos are very desireable (if you go the apisto route) so you'd be able to find them new homes pretty easily. And most LFS are very willing to take them.
Also, other fish in the tank will probably pic a lot off if you don't want to remove them, so you wouldn't be very over run.

 

[DragonGirl]

Ok so scrap the males thing if I do apistos I'll just do a pair of my favorite type or only females if I can find some really pretty ones. I'll check to see if my LFS will take fry before I get a pair just to make sure. There are two near me so hopefully one will take them.

The tank is 35x12.5x24 so really more of a tall tank than long I believe, although I don't know a lot about what makes a tall vs long. It's the same length as a 40 breeder but taller and not as deep so I don't know that that would work for a rainbow shark.

I've been looking at basic shell dweller info and it seems that they really can't be kept with anything not native to Lake Tanganyika because of pH and hardness differences. My ph is 7.6 I don't know what my hardness is though, I believe it's somewhere in the middle range. When I try putting shell dwellers with any tetra in aqadvisor it shoots it down because of the pH and says "Lake Tanganyika species should not be mixed with other groups." How correct is this? Could I do a Lake Tanganyika tank or is it too small? I'm starting to get frustrated with how limited I am with the taller tanks it seems like there's no good way to fill all the empty space created by the height.

 

[ktomminello]

Congo tetra, Killifish, and livebearers can usually be kept with shell dwellers

 

[Oohitsae]

If they are all tank bred fish that you are buying, then they should be easily adjusted to different pH and hardness ranges if needed.

Like GBRs, they like soft acidic water, but I keep mine in a 7.6 pH with hardness being pretty high too. They are perfectly adjusted and doing great. Just something to think about.