Critical need: inverted 4" Fancy Goldfish

[mapexmac007]

Hi folks,

I'm desperate for some help. I've got an inverted 4" Fancy Goldfish, she just got over a prolonged intestinal parasite, and had a four-month long bout of swim bladder issues, which kept her confined to floating at the surface of the tank. She was hand-fed during this time. She frequently managed to swim below enough to keep her scale wet - thankfully.

About a week ago she regained some buoyancy and was able to move about the tank — sideways — although still fighting that inverted posture issue.

Now, she's stuck at the bottom.

She still has a healthy appetite and managed to swim throughout the tank during this morning's feeding. However, I noticed some red, irritated scales at the base of her dorsal fin, because she's basically resting on that fin while being bottomed.

We've been fighting to keep her alive, euthanasia is not really a "treatment" option here — unless we've absolutely exhausted all other options. She's a fighter — and so are we.

Full details on history, environment, etc. found here in this thread:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/inverted-fancy-tail-suggestions-requested-299233.html

Grateful for ANY treatment suggestions!

 

[mapexmac007]

27 views — and not one comment or suggestion? Was it something I've said?

Well, it's looking pretty much like her swim bladder is shot, gone. She can hardly move off of the tank bottom —*and after nearly 30 hours of this, her dorsal fin (where it meets her body) is looking bloodshot red. She's getting beat-up badly down there and it's breaking our hearts to see her like this.

It's time to put her down, an sadly, we must euthanize this fish. It's very sad. I've literally cradled her (gently) in my loose fingers to feed her, to work with her, in one prolonged effort of rehabilitation.

Now, days into her no longer being confined inverted at the surface, she's pinned-down to the bottom. Just sad.

I've read through the extensive "euthanizing" suggestions but I'm confused if a fancy tail goldfish is a cold water fish (carp are cold water pond fish) or if she's considered a warm water tropical. Can anyone please suggest which is best for this species: boiling hot water, or freezing slushy water?

I'd even consider putting her into an alcohol-laced body of water, what ever is quickest an least painful...

Please — any suggestions are welcomed.

 

[Patty1980]

I'm so sorry. I think boiling is most humane. I know the thought is painful, but it is the fastest.

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[jlk]

I am very sorry

Fancies can tolerate cold (even freezing water) in most cases. MS-222, benzocaine or clove oil (eugenol) are all humane means for euthanasia. Blunt force trauma can be considered as well. I can not advocate boiling under any circumstances as humane form of euthanasia for a treasured pet.

 

[tanz8anz]

Have u tried adding a bit of salt to help with the swim bladder?

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[mapexmac007]

AN update:
As of this morning, she's still hanging in there, now on her side more than on her back — this is somewhat encouraging. I really do not intend on prolonging her suffering, but since she's NOT on her dorsal fin, we're hopeful she might be turning that corner and on the mend.

I've heard from several goldfish keepers, it's unlikely her swim bladder has ruptured.

So, hope against all hope, I fed her one cube (3/8inch) of homemade smushed green peas this morning. She perked-up quite a bit, ate about 3/4s of that cube (the two fantails got the rest) and then swam all throughout the tank for about five minutes — before settling back down to her favorite bottom spot. (I believe she feels safe there.) Her summing was UPRIGHT!! Not inverted!

So, we shall hold-off for a for a few days, monitoring her progress extremely closely.

Tanz —*my current salt reading is ~3PPT — or if you will, ~1.003 specific gravity. I do not know if she needs a more concentrated "salt bath" for a brief period, but I'm certainly willing to try ANY remedy.

If a salt bath is recommended, what specific gravity/PPT should I prep? How long should she be bathed in that solution? Of course, I'll use water from her tank to start with.

BTW - current water temp. is about 74°. How does one cool-off tank water??? Add cold water at a WC??

Thanks everyone, my family and I really appreciate the help/support!

 

[tanz8anz]

I have im not sure on the amount of salt sorry for a concentrates salt bath i have not tried it myself as i have counted a swim.bladder problem before but my cousin did and she used a salt bath to with hers after trying everything else under the sun. I can try and get ahold of her and c if she remembers how much she used and for how long.

Its good to see there is slight improvement.

As for temp i would do a wc and put slightly colder water in and get the temp back to what they r used to

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[tanz8anz]

The salt bath she used was 1 teaspoon of salt to one gallon (3.8litres) and for 15mins. She increased the amount of salt in her aquarium as the fish would b fine while in the salt bath and then go backwards in.the tank but your salt levels seem.fine so i would try the salt bath a few times and see if that helps..

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[pip walters]

Ok, please try this.
If you can have the fish in a container on its own, reduce the water level so that it is enough to.just cover the fish by a quadter inch, this reduces the pressure on the fishes body and thjs the swim bladder. Adding salt at a rate of 3g per litre will help alleviate stress.

If and when the fish regains its equilibrium, you can gradually add water daily to steadily increase the depth and allow the fish to adjust. It doesn't always work and even if it does, it is likely that the fish may suffer the problem again.

Fancy goldfish are basically deformed fish developed for their body shape andflowing fins. Unfortunately, the body shape.compresses the internal organs and swim bladder, digestive and kidney problems are quite common.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Please don't put a fish into boiling water. Overdosing with an anaesthetic agent is far and away the most humane.

 

[jlk]

Ok, please try this.
If you can have the fish in a container on its own, reduce the water level so that it is enough to.just cover the fish by a quadter inch, this reduces the pressure on the fishes body and thjs the swim bladder. Adding salt at a rate of 3g per litre will help alleviate stress.

If and when the fish regains its equilibrium, you can gradually add water daily to steadily increase the depth and allow the fish to adjust. It doesn't always work and even if it does, it is likely that the fish may suffer the problem again.

Fancy goldfish are basically deformed fish developed for their body shape andflowing fins. Unfortunately, the body shape.compresses the internal organs and swim bladder, digestive and kidney problems are quite common.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Please don't put a fish into boiling water. Overdosing with an anaesthetic agent is far and away the most humane.

This is an ancient Chinese method for treating buoyancy issues. Placing the fish in just enough water that he is covered then gradually increasing the level over days sometimes works and is worth a try! As this fish has spent most of his life in salted water and it will only further his stress rather than reduce it, I disagree with using salt. Just make sure the water conditions are kept pristine if you give this a try!

One other option to consider as the fish is now bottom sitting is to consider a harness if the sitting is a constant issue and he starts to develop sores on his belly from pressure. There are quite a few UTube videos where people discuss their construction.

 

[mapexmac007]

Tanz, PIP, JLK — I cannot thank you enough for offering these remedies! I'll work on getting her into a small body of water tonight. We have an old, empty 10 gallon tank, I'll begin setting it up tonight.

As for a "sling/cradle" I was actually thinking of making one out of some of my wife's old discarded hose (cleaned and thoroughly rinsed of course). I figured this material would be soft and gentle — so as to mitigate the bruising currently taking place.

Maybe the 10 gal tank won't be such a good idea, as I won't have a means to filter the water. We have an old HOB filter to use — if even for just the days it will take to rehab her. I'll see what I can come-up with for a temporary tank/environment.

Lastly, JLK, I've heard this about the breeding of this species. Sad. I'd say (politically speaking) such a breeding practice ought to be banned. Inevitably, it's creating a life of misery for these beautiful creatures. This one in particular has had several bouts of inverted life, lasting mere days, before the condition cleared-up.

Beautiful fins are a marvel to behold as they gently flow in the tank's water, but beauty for our vanity's sake is hardly cause to subject such fish to a life of health complexities. Just my opinion; I'm likely preaching to the choir on this one.

 

[mapexmac007]

A temporary "rehab" tank

Hey folks,

So I've washed this plastic "shoe box" container wish dish detergent, and rinsed it thoroughly. We've got an unused Aqueon HOB filter to keep her water moving and clean while we rehab her in this shallow environment. I'll take the water form her existing environment. I'll begin work on a cradleI'll likely take some old nylons and drape them across the sides of this "tank", and allow for her to be held — gills free and unobstructed of course!!!

See attached pictures.

I'm a little concerned about the flow rate of this HOB, but if we keep the Fancy at the end furtherest form the filter, I'm hopeful that will mitigate current annoyance.

Any thoughts from you experts? While I'm awaiting your collective feedback, I'll go to YouTube and review rehab cradles.

Thanks again folks; my family and I really appreciate your input in this matter!

EDIT:
Just had another thought with respect to a rehab cradle... Why not build one which holds her near the top of her existing tank?? IN this way, she's got less pressure on her, and the water is fresh, recirculated properly, and there's no bacterial/environmental concerns. Maybe a nursery net enclosure hanging off of the side of the 329 gal tank??? Thoughts?

 

[jlk]

Cover the intake of the filter heavily with filter foam (aq sponge) to minimize flow and current. Or just add a small airstone and change the water twice a day.

I have used slings in the past. Nothing fancy either. Think of how a sling is fashioned for a human arm. The sling was made out of soft fleece and attached to balanced fishing bobbers. Fish's head/gills stick out front and tail out the back. Balancing is a bit tricky though! It gives the fish freedom to swim around or just rest and when they feel up to it, they would simply swim out of the sling. There are some more complicated setups out there though!

 

[mapexmac007]

Hi folks,
Here's an update:
I've got a small netted hatchery pen (HOB style) and she's resting in there, has been for several days now. I deduce the net is easier on her scales and fins then the rocks at the tank's bottom.

She's not inverted now, just on her side. She still has one hell of an appetite. I'm careful to not overfeed her in there. Once a day, I let her into the tank —*where she tries to swim about. She'll be OK for a minute or two, then tires, and sinks to the bottom.

One of the fantails is displaying male "poke, nudge" tendencies as if to prod her into laying eggs (purely a hypothetical guess on my part - they're all about two years old, too young for reproduction) and really seems to be focused on this sick Fancytail. As soon as I observe this ritual, I'll lift her up and back into the nursery pen she goes.

By all accounts, she's alert, seems somewhat vibrant, just on her side and unable to control her buoyancy.

Any notion as to how long it may take for her swim bladder to heal? Any suggestions as to what else might be going on here? Her diet is mainly the Emerald Entree (frozen cubes) or homemade mushed green peas (frozen cubes). Occasionally, she gets blood worms or brine shrimp.

Thanks to anyone who has some advice.

 

[pip walters]

This is an ancient Chinese method for treating buoyancy issues. Placing the fish in just enough water that he is covered then gradually increasing the level over days sometimes works and is worth a try! As this fish has spent most of his life in salted water and it will only further his stress rather than reduce it, I disagree with using salt. Just make sure the water conditions are kept pristine if you give this a try!

One other option to consider as the fish is now bottom sitting is to consider a harness if the sitting is a constant issue and he starts to develop sores on his belly from pressure. There are quite a few UTube videos where people discuss their construction.

It is well documented that salt in the dose I have suggested is very good during theraputic treatment. Yes, the fish has been kept with salt in the water thus far, but at a negligable dose that would be tolerated by just about any freshwater fish (approx 0.01% by my calculation) and most fry.

I have suggested the dose as a theraputic dose during my suggested pressure reduction method (very interesting that it is an ancient method used by the Chinese... they know a thing or two about fish!) as this fish, which is almost certainly stressed already, is going to be put under a little more stress in isolation.

The use of salt to aid osmoregulation during stress is, as I understand it, scientifically proven. It is certainly well used in aquaculture and also helps to reduce the negative effects of ammonia, nitrites and to reduce the toxicity of nitrates.

I would say that trying this therapeutic approach with a fish that was doomed to euthanasia in the early answers of this post is a step in the right direction.

 

[pip walters]

Hi folks,
Here's an update:
I've got a small netted hatchery pen (HOB style) and she's resting in there, has been for several days now. I deduce the net is easier on her scales and fins then the rocks at the tank's bottom.

She's not inverted now, just on her side. She still has one hell of an appetite. I'm careful to not overfeed her in there. Once a day, I let her into the tank —*where she tries to swim about. She'll be OK for a minute or two, then tires, and sinks to the bottom.

One of the fantails is displaying male "poke, nudge" tendencies as if to prod her into laying eggs (purely a hypothetical guess on my part - they're all about two years old, too young for reproduction) and really seems to be focused on this sick Fancytail. As soon as I observe this ritual, I'll lift her up and back into the nursery pen she goes.

By all accounts, she's alert, seems somewhat vibrant, just on her side and unable to control her buoyancy.

Any notion as to how long it may take for her swim bladder to heal? Any suggestions as to what else might be going on here? Her diet is mainly the Emerald Entree (frozen cubes) or homemade mushed green peas (frozen cubes). Occasionally, she gets blood worms or brine shrimp.

Thanks to anyone who has some advice.

It is difficult to say when, or even if, the fish will recover fully and even then re-occurrance is quite common. You are doing everything you can and I commend you for persevering, so fingers crossed.

I always advocate daphnia. It is an excellent natural food that forms a staple diet for many fish in the wild and is full of both high quality protein and roughage to aid digestion. Earthworms are similarly nutritious.

 

[pip walters]

Hey folks,

So I've washed this plastic "shoe box" container wish dish detergent, and rinsed it thoroughly. We've got an unused Aqueon HOB filter to keep her water moving and clean while we rehab her in this shallow environment. I'll take the water form her existing environment. I'll begin work on a cradleI'll likely take some old nylons and drape them across the sides of this "tank", and allow for her to be held — gills free and unobstructed of course!!!

See attached pictures.

I'm a little concerned about the flow rate of this HOB, but if we keep the Fancy at the end furtherest form the filter, I'm hopeful that will mitigate current annoyance.

Any thoughts from you experts? While I'm awaiting your collective feedback, I'll go to YouTube and review rehab cradles.

Thanks again folks; my family and I really appreciate your input in this matter!

EDIT:
Just had another thought with respect to a rehab cradle... Why not build one which holds her near the top of her existing tank?? IN this way, she's got less pressure on her, and the water is fresh, recirculated properly, and there's no bacterial/environmental concerns. Maybe a nursery net enclosure hanging off of the side of the 329 gal tank??? Thoughts?

Excellent idea

 

[mapexmac007]

UPDATE — I don't know if anyone is still tracking this one, but here's the latest news:

Our fancy tail is still hanging tough, still shows a zest of life, especially when it's feeding time. She's still on her left side, and remains on the tank's bottom. I removed her form the nursery pen, assuming it was really stressing her, AND most notably, she was getting contact rashes on her scales where she was in contact with the mesh of the nursery bottom.

Now, as she rests on the gravel, those contact sores have abated. She's not swimming or attempting to swim as often as she was a week ago, which has me wondering, is the end near?

Her breathing, at times, looks labored and shallow. I am leaning more and more towards euthanasia. I do not yet have any benzocaine on hand, for this seemingly inevitable conclusion. I wasn't able to locate any in my local grocery store's pharma aisles. Any suggestions where one finds liquid benzocaine? I came across a few products which had a derivative of benzocaine, but my uncertainty of THAT substance delayed a purchase.

 

[tanz8anz]

Sorry to hear she hasnt recovered even tho u tried everything.. ive never heard of benzocaine so cant help u with that

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[mapexmac007]

Hi Tanz - I read about it in the permanent thread which compares the most "humane" means by which to euthanize ill fish. The benzocaine method seems to be the most painless, quickest method by which to end a fish's life.

Without opening a can of worms on ethics and personal beliefs, I can say that I and my family have seriously agonized over this topic for weeks. Part of me wants to scream, "It's just a fish!" and get on with the act. On the other hand, she's a gentle living creature that we've cared for, she's a family member from that perspective. OY!