Hi AA check out my 40 gallon cichlid tank

[91cichlid]

I'd actually shy away from spinach, I'm not sure if it's the same in fish, but for herbivorous reptiles, it actually makes calcium unabsorbable

Are you sure ? Because LFS and other cichlid websites said it was perfectly fine to include it in their diet. But if you have proof please show me!

 

[Cichlid Kid]

Did you mean to say you have zero's across the board including nitrates?

 

[garfy]

If you have 0 Nitrates then you don't have a cycled tank.They can be kept low even as low as 10 ppm but 0 I very much doubt.

 

[jseiverd]

I have at least ten times filtration and do alot of water changes i can never get to absolute 0 nitrate

 

[jseiverd]

**---but

 

[jseiverd]

U did say you use prime tho and ive heard that helps with trates

 

[Wolfsblood]

How big are these fish right now?

 

[rotorhead22]

U did say you use prime tho and ive heard that helps with trates

Nitrates are only reduced greatly by doing PWC, although plants do use some Nitrates as nutrients.

Prime does not reduce Nitrates. Like garfy,I also doubt that the actual levels of Nitrates are zero.

OP make sure you are agitating the API bottles as instructed otherwise you will get erroneous results. You are supposed to have Nitrates in a cycled tank.

 

[garfy]

I've found if you don't shake bottle 2 for long enough you get high results.

 

[phin]

Nitrates are only reduced greatly by doing PWC, although plants do use some Nitrates as nutrients.

Prime does not reduce Nitrates. Like garfy,I also doubt that the actual levels of Nitrates are zero.

OP make sure you are agitating the API bottles as instructed otherwise you will get erroneous results. You are supposed to have Nitrates in a cycled tank.

From the label on the bottle of Prime in front of me: "Prime detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them."

Nitrate is converted into nitrogen gas, N2, which is the final stage of the nitrogen cycle. This is accomplished by bacterial species Pseudomonas and Clostridium in anaerobic conditions. They use the nitrate as an electron acceptor in the place of oxygen during respiration. These bacteria can also live in aerobic conditions.

Think about waste water treatment. How do you think it is that you can turn your faucet on and have 0 nitrates in it? It isn't because of partial water changes at the water treatment plant.

Under the proper conditions you can reduce Nitrate to close to zero. Its not easy, but it isn't impossible.

In a saltwater system, the reason for all the live rock, is to create the anaerobic conditions necessary for nitrate removal deep within the porous rock. These anaerobic conditions can also be created in freshwater systems. See seachem's De-Nitrate product. Very large pieces of lava rock also help replicate the anaerobic conditions found in live rock structures in SW tanks.

 

[phin]

If you have 0 Nitrates then you don't have a cycled tank.They can be kept low even as low as 10 ppm but 0 I very much doubt.

With that bio-load, if he didn't have a cycled tank he would NOT have anything close to 0 ammonia.

Either the nitrate test is not accurate, or nitrates are being removed from his system. Either one is possible.

 

[garfy]

Actually water treatment plants do do a sort of pwc as they draw water from rivers and streams (surface water) which gets mixed with mains return water (Drains and sewers) this is then treated further Chemically and biologically so it is safe to drink.

 

[Freakgecko91]

Are you sure ? Because LFS and other cichlid websites said it was perfectly fine to include it in their diet. But if you have proof please show me!

No, I'm not sure, hence why I said that I don't know if its the same in fish lol I do know that it contains oxalates that are known to bind with calcium in the gut of many reptiles, making that calcium basically useless. I'm just not sure if the same applies to fish

 

[phin]

...treated further Chemically and biologically so it is safe to drink.

The main process in treating water and the process in nature to remove nitrates (not dilute the concentration) is through the anaerobic stage of the nitrogen cycle which is a conversion of nitrate to nitrogen and oxygen.

My point is, this can be replicated in an enclosed system like a freshwater tank. It is possible, but not easy or often feasible.

 

[phin]

No, I'm not sure, hence why I said that I don't know if its the same in fish lol I do know that it contains oxalates that are known to bind with calcium in the gut of many reptiles, making that calcium basically useless. I'm just not sure if the same applies to fish

Thats interesting, because spinach (and greens) is high in calcium and is actually a good part of a diet in combating osteoperosis in humans. How do you think cows get calcium in their milk? Its in the grass they constantly eat.

But I don't really know much about reptiles.

 

[garfy]

The main process in treating water and the process in nature to remove nitrates (not dilute the concentration) is through the anaerobic stage of the nitrogen cycle which is a conversion of nitrate to nitrogen and oxygen.

My point is, this can be replicated in an enclosed system like a freshwater tank. It is possible, but not easy or often feasible.

I think it highly unlikely in most Aquariums but I get your point.

 

[phin]

I think it highly unlikely in most Aquariums but I get your point.

I agree, it is highly unlikely and very difficult in a FW system. I'm constantly trying to remove nitrates and keep water changes down. Through some changes I've made I've been able to go down to 2 30% water changes/week from 1 50% pwc, and keep my nitrates around 20-40ppm, but its still a constant battle. I'd love to have <10ppm nitrates in my mbuna tank doing only 1 30% pwc/week.

 

[garfy]

I agree, it is highly unlikely and very difficult in a FW system. I'm constantly trying to remove nitrates and keep water changes down. Through some changes I've made I've been able to go down to 2 30% water changes/week from 1 50% pwc, and keep my nitrates around 20-40ppm, but its still a constant battle. I'd love to have <10ppm nitrates in my mbuna tank doing only 1 30% pwc/week.

Wouldn't we all.I do 1 50% sometimes a bit more per week and my nitrates are <20 for most of the week just rising above 20 towards my water change so im fairly happy.

 

[phin]

Wouldn't we all.I do 1 50% sometimes a bit more per week and my nitrates are <20 for most of the week just rising above 20 towards my water change so im fairly happy.

I'm in a very similar situation to the OP. I have a 44 gallon overstocked mbuna tank. I have a C360 canister, not an Fx5. my turnover is about 8x volume, as opposed to 10. I know the Fx5 is a better filter than a C360, but I wouldn't contribute a difference to an additional 40gph turnover. I have one large piece of lava rock, about the size of a canteloupe. perhaps the OP's 15lbs of lava rock make a difference.

 

[garfy]

I'm in a very similar situation to the OP. I have a 44 gallon overstocked mbuna tank. I have a C360 canister, not an Fx5. my turnover is about 8x volume, as opposed to 10. I know the Fx5 is a better filter than a C360, but I wouldn't contribute a difference to an additional 40gph turnover. I have one large piece of lava rock, about the size of a canteloupe. perhaps the OP's 15lbs of lava rock make a difference.

I'm also very stringent with my vacuuming of the sand and remove all rocks and wood bi-weekly so I can do this properly.