Hi AA check out my 40 gallon cichlid tank

[rotorhead22]

From the label on the bottle of Prime in front of me: "Prime detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them."

Nitrate is converted into nitrogen gas, N2, which is the final stage of the nitrogen cycle. This is accomplished by bacterial species Pseudomonas and Clostridium in anaerobic conditions. They use the nitrate as an electron acceptor in the place of oxygen during respiration. These bacteria can also live in aerobic conditions.

Think about waste water treatment. How do you think it is that you can turn your faucet on and have 0 nitrates in it? It isn't because of partial water changes at the water treatment plant.

Under the proper conditions you can reduce Nitrate to close to zero. Its not easy, but it isn't impossible.

In a saltwater system, the reason for all the live rock, is to create the anaerobic conditions necessary for nitrate removal deep within the porous rock. These anaerobic conditions can also be created in freshwater systems. See seachem's De-Nitrate product. Very large pieces of lava rock also help replicate the anaerobic conditions found in live rock structures in SW tanks.

Phin, so does this mean you don't do any PWCs? Of course what you stated is true in a well balanced system, like an ocean or lake, or even a waste water treatment plant. FYI, tap water in many municipalities do contain low levels of Nitrates.

An easy and practical formula to forego PWC in our tanks to reduce Nitrates would be welcomed by many a freshwater fish keeper.

The facts: Denitrifying bacteria is anaerobic, which is why they are able to reduce NO3 to N2 and H2O; they get their oxygen by using Nitrates. So unless we have a deep sand bed (deeper than 5") to get anaerobic pockets, use the vodka method, use a denitrifying filter, or use use live rock, de-nitrifying bacteria will Not thrive. The reality is that we are stuck doing PWCs to reduce Nitrates in a freshwater tank although a refugium could be used to reduce the Nitrates some.

 

[rotorhead22]

I'm in a very similar situation to the OP. I have a 44 gallon overstocked mbuna tank. I have a C360 canister, not an Fx5. my turnover is about 8x volume, as opposed to 10. I know the Fx5 is a better filter than a C360, but I wouldn't contribute a difference to an additional 40gph turnover. I have one large piece of lava rock, about the size of a canteloupe. perhaps the OP's 15lbs of lava rock make a difference.

If the Nitrate test results are accurate there is no doubt the basalt is working which begs the question, Why isn't everybody doing this??

 

[phin]

Phin, so does this mean you don't do any PWCs? Of course what you stated is true in a well balanced system, like an ocean or lake, or even a waste water treatment plant. FYI, tap water in many municipalities do contain low levels of Nitrates.

An easy and practical formula to forego PWC in our tanks to reduce Nitrates would be welcomed by many a freshwater fish keeper.

I wish! I stated above:

I agree, it is highly unlikely and very difficult in a FW system. I'm constantly trying to remove nitrates and keep water changes down. Through some changes I've made I've been able to go down to 2 30% water changes/week from 1 50% pwc, and keep my nitrates around 20-40ppm, but its still a constant battle. I'd love to have <10ppm nitrates in my mbuna tank doing only 1 30% pwc/week.

The facts: Denitrifying bacteria is anaerobic, which is why they are able to reduce NO3 to N2 and H2O; they get their oxygen by using Nitrates. So unless we have a deep sand bed (deeper than 5") to get anaerobic pockets, use the vodka method, use a denitrifying filter, or use use live rock, de-nitrifying bacteria will Not thrive. The reality is that we are stuck doing PWCs to reduce Nitrates in a freshwater tank although a refugium could be used to reduce the Nitrates some.

Absolutely. Seachem's product De-Nitrate attempts to create these anaerobic pockets, but a requirement is a low-flow of water over the media. The idea, which is the same principle for live rock, is that all the aerobic bacteria live on the surface and on the outer-part of the inside of the rock, use up the oxygen in the water that permeates the rock so that the water that reaches the middle of the rock is devoid of oxygen. Thus, the anaerobic bacteria thrive here and convert nitrate into nitrogen.

My current mbuna tank was set up in the beginning of August '12, it has almost been in operation for 6 months. I know in a SW system it takes approximately that length of time to turn base rock into live rock. My tank has about 30lbs of south florida limestone (base rock), the same rock you would get if you bought florida keys live rock. I am hoping to create anaerobic conditions in the depths of the limestone, but have doubts it will occur in a non-marine environment.

perhaps in an enclosed FW system basalt creates these conditions to such an extent that a significant amount of nitrates are removed?

 

[91cichlid]

You guys were right. I forgot to add the second 10 drops of nitrate no3 thats why my reading was 0. So the new reading reads about 80ppm

 

[91cichlid]

you guys were right. I forgot to add the second 10 drops of nitrate no3 thats why my reading was 0. So the new reading reads about 80ppm

 

[CharlieKlein]

Do a 50 percent water change stat

 

[91cichlid]

Do a 50 percent water change stat

I did a 25 on sat . Do another?

 

[CharlieKlein]

Well if the trates are 80 then yes. It is deadly to the fish if it is above 20, tho some say 40 is ok

 

[91cichlid]

Well if the trates are 80 then yes. It is deadly to the fish if it is above 20, tho some say 40 is ok

What causes it to be that high? Is it because my tank is overcrowded and have to much waste?

 

[CharlieKlein]

I believe so.

 

[Wolfsblood]

What causes it to be that high? Is it because my tank is overcrowded and have to much waste?

Yes it is. Unfortunately all the filtration in the world wont get rid of nitrates. How often are you doing water changes?

 

[phin]

Well if the trates are 80 then yes. It is deadly to the fish if it is above 20, tho some say 40 is ok

Negative. It is not deadly to fish "above 20ppm." Fish will adjust. Nitrates that high are not optimal. High nitrates can make it harder for injuries and infections to heal and can make fish more susceptible to disease.

There is a difference between "deadly" and "not conducent to promoting optimal health"

 

[Convict2161]

Negative. It is not deadly to fish "above 20ppm." Fish will adjust. Nitrates that high are not optimal. High nitrates can make it harder for injuries and infections to heal and can make fish more susceptible to disease.

There is a difference between "deadly" and "not conducent to promoting optimal health"

I agree... That statement about it being deadly is wrong. I've had 20, 40, 80 ppm many times. I've also had upwards of 100+ that's not good but water changes fixed it. It was my fault, got lazy with my changes.

 

[CharlieKlein]

Sorry, just ment that a water change would be beneficial

 

[91cichlid]

Yes it is. Unfortunately all the filtration in the world wont get rid of nitrates. How often are you doing water changes?

About 15-20% a week

 

[Wolfsblood]

I have 13 cichlids in my 55 and I am doing a 15% change and then a 40% change every week. It has been working pretty well for me. You could try doing 50% change every week too and see where you end up.

 

[91cichlid]

I have 13 cichlids in my 55 and I am doing a 15% change and then a 40% change every week. It has been working pretty well for me. You could try doing 50% change every week too and see where you end up.

Wont that be to much of a change? 50%?

 

[Wolfsblood]

Personally I dont think so, Ive never had a problem when doing large water changes. Maybe someone who has can chime in and explain their experience.

 

[Convict2161]

Sorry, just ment that a water change would be beneficial

No reason to be sorry. We all learn here... Your right though water changes are beneficial! Keep on truckin!

 

[phin]

Wont that be to much of a change? 50%?

If the temp is similar and the pH is the same then its fine. many posters on AA routinely do 50% wc. I did a 60% change yesterday.