Hind Sight is 20/20 Water Quality

[jarrod0987]

Most of the good bacteria are stuck to surfaces. I can't say that water changes don't remove a single one but they defiantly don't remove the overwhelming majority of it. This has been stated by Dr. Tim who has a PHD or 2 and the discoverer of the strains that exist in aquariums. It has also been stated by others. When you see spikes from a tank cycling you are basically looking at a work backlog that the bacteria haven't got to yet. If you wait, the bacteria double, and can work faster. If you remove water, you are also removing backlog, so they catch up faster.

 

[Sonata]

Thanks. I appreciate the info. Regardless of what method I use, water changes are involved. Cycling my tank quickly is not as important to me as saving my fish.
I use Prime when I change water.
Would I vacuum the gravel when I do a water change ? I heard that is where some of the good bacteria forms.

 

[Sonata]

English ( LOL )

Most of the good bacteria are stuck to surfaces. I can't say that water changes don't remove a single one but they defiantly don't remove the overwhelming majority of it. This has been stated by Dr. Tim who has a PHD or 2 and the discoverer of the strains that exist in aquariums. It has also been stated by others. When you see spikes from a tank cycling you are basically looking at a work backlog that the bacteria haven't got to yet. If you wait, the bacteria double, and can work faster. If you remove water, you are also removing backlog, so they catch up faster.

Call me slow, but I don't understand your opinion on water changes ? Do you think they do any good or not ? Sorry, it's me, not you. I am easily confused.

 

[TMRC Exotics]

Whatever member has given you this advise that you want to believe is wrong, period, coral bandit is right. You have to do water changes during the cycle or your fish will die from the ammonia. When you do water changes you are not removing the bacteria needed for denitrification as they are sticking to surfaces in the tank and in the filter. You are removing some ammonia to maintain safe levels for the fish but you are leaving enough for the bacteria colony to grow.

Personally I would reevaluate who you should be listening to on here because your goldfish tank thread was full of misinformation contributed by a few uninformed members.

 

[Sonata]

Reassessing the Situation

Whatever member has given you this advise that you want to believe is wrong, period, coral bandit is right. You have to do water changes during the cycle or your fish will die from the ammonia. When you do water changes you are not removing the bacteria needed for denitrification as they are sticking to surfaces in the tank and in the filter. You are removing some ammonia to maintain safe levels for the fish but you are leaving enough for the bacteria colony to grow.

Personally I would reevaluate who you should be listening to on here because your goldfish tank thread was full of misinformation contributed by a few uninformed members.

I am reassessing the situation. I think I must be a slow learner.
I have been basing my actions on the advise of 1 person.
Since the beneficial bacteria is found on surfaces, I should not vacuum the gravel during water changes. Am I right ?
Thanks again.

 

[coralbandit]

Vacuum away!
If you have enough media in your filter the gravel will not hold nearly as much BB.
BB will attach to any surface;glass,sand,gravel,tubes,heaters.....
Waste collects in the gravel sand.
Get it out!
The media in filter does not even have to be "bio" media.
I use mostly sponges which still makes many twitch,since they don't understand that BB grows everywhere AND only in the amount needed.
Many keep adding more and more or "better" "Bio" media thinking it will make their water better.
This is just not possible(I sense a debate?)as the final stage of bacteria turns nitrite into nitrate which has to removed by waterchanges or plant uptake(exported).All more bio does is reduce the strength of the bacteria per surface area,not grow more then you need.You can't grow more then you need without adding a larger ammonia source.
You should be vacuuming when you do your water changes to reduce the nutrients to a safe level,which is less then 1ppm for boith ammonia and nitrite.

 

[Reygan2]

I don't see a need to vacuum the gravel during your cycle. If you don't want to have a planted tank then you will definitely need to vacuum in the future though.


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[Reygan2]

Oops, sorry lol. Posted at the same time.


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[Sonata]

As I said, I have a 30 gallon with an ammonia level of 1.
Is there a certain percentage I should remove & how many times a week ?
I would think small changes a few times a week would be best. What are your feelings ?
I do want to thank you so much for your help. I am learning so much.
I do like to have my light on for a few hours each day. More so I can enjoy the aquarium. I do have a bristlenose to help with algae. I stocked way too heavy thinking my tank was cycled. ( 10 zebras, 3 guppies, 2 dwarf gouramais & a bristlenose ) Dumb, eh ?
I have had much success with planted tanks in the past. I have all the necessary Seachem chemicals & diffusers. I had two diffusers in my 30. I think it was too much. I couldn't control the jungle. All my plants are plastic now, but I may begin replacing them gradually. I have plans to set up a smaller tank in the fall. ( 15 to 20 gallons ) I'll cycle without fish this time & have live plants. I'd like to make a tetra tank.
I have learned so much !! Thanks !!

 

[Sonata]

As I said, I have a 30 gallon with an ammonia level of 1.
Is there a certain percentage I should remove & how many times a week ?
I would think small changes a few times a week would be best. What are your feelings ?
I do want to thank you so much for your help. I am learning so much.
I do like to have my light on for a few hours each day. More so I can enjoy the aquarium. I do have a bristlenose to help with algae. I stocked way too heavy thinking my tank was cycled. ( 10 zebras, 3 guppies, 2 dwarf gouramais & a bristlenose ) Dumb, eh ?
I have had much success with planted tanks in the past. I have all the necessary Seachem chemicals & diffusers. I had two diffusers in my 30. I think it was too much. I couldn't control the jungle. All my plants are plastic now, but I may begin replacing them gradually. I have plans to set up a smaller tank in the fall. ( 15 to 20 gallons ) I'll cycle without fish this time & have live plants. I'd like to make a tetra tank.
I have learned so much !! Thanks !!

 

[coralbandit]

The test should guide your waterchanges.
Small changes are not as effective as larger ones.
It's a dilution issue;
again the % changed is the % the nutrient will be lowered(removed).
So with 1ppm a 50% change should yield .5ppm
Doing smaller changes dilutes the nutrients back into new water and then you need to remove more to get the same amount out again.
You are pretty stocked so I would feed light and test daily if not every other .
And with that stocking level definitely use the vacuum on at least 1/2 of the tank.
Switch sides of tank every change or if changing daily you can skip a day or two and just remove water.
Using prime will help with detoxifying ammonia and nitrite I believe BUT they will still register on your test so don't keep adding looking for a number change.

 

[Sonata]

I am so happy I began this thread. Everyone has been so helpful.
I'll keep you posted & don't hold back. I want to know it ALL ! All I need to have a healthy tank !
If I want a plant tank, could I start the CO2 now or would it be better to start that after the tank has cycled ?

 

[Reygan2]

The test should guide your waterchanges.
Small changes are not as effective as larger ones.
It's a dilution issue;
again the % changed is the % the nutrient will be lowered(removed).
So with 1ppm a 50% change should yield .5ppm
Doing smaller changes dilutes the nutrients back into new water and then you need to remove more to get the same amount out again.
You are pretty stocked so I would feed light and test daily if not every other .
And with that stocking level definitely use the vacuum on at least 1/2 of the tank.
Switch sides of tank every change or if changing daily you can skip a day or two and just remove water.
Using prime will help with detoxifying ammonia and nitrite I believe BUT they will still register on your test so don't keep adding looking for a number change.

+1


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[TMRC Exotics]

+2, all great advice from coralbandit. I think we view water change and bb locations very similarly coral bandit, no debate here. All looks spot on to me.

As for the co2 sonata, wait until the plants are in to add co2, no need to dose before its planted.

 

[jarrod0987]

Call me slow, but I don't understand your opinion on water changes ? Do you think they do any good or not ? Sorry, it's me, not you. I am easily confused.

I apologize for the confusion. They will not remove beneficial bacteria, they will help the cycle go faster by removing extra ammonia and nitrite without having to wait for the developing bacteria to catch up. I say they are a very good thing in this case and in most cases.

 

[jarrod0987]

CO2 systems are a little pricey. For a beginner I might try Seachem's Flourish Excel or a competitors liquid carbon. That's cheaper and easier. You could upgrade to a CO2 system later. If you have a lot of fish you can have plenty of good plant growth without CO2 or liquid carbon. I have never used CO2 Injection. Had a 75 gal full of Mollies, Platty's etc...great plant growth and health. Double bright T5 fixture that was the length of the tank. No CO2 injection or liquid carbon on that tank. Just lot's of fish and sand bed with fish waste in it. The sand was only pool sand. A lot of high tech plant people will scream bloody murder about the way I did that tank but I assure you the plants were growing like crazy. We all used to keep planted tanks that way before we got all this nice high tech stuff. It's nice but expensive too. Not always necessary.

 

[Sonata]

Clarification

I apologize for the confusion. They will not remove beneficial bacteria, they will help the cycle go faster by removing extra ammonia and nitrite without having to wait for the developing bacteria to catch up. I say they are a very good thing in this case and in most cases.

Thanks for that. I understand. Sometimes I have to have things spelled out & repeated to clarify & accept.
My personality. I need to hear many testimonials before I can make something a habit.
Thanks to all of you for making that happen.