How many cycle fish?

[tyrel]

I came home from the lfs with 6 feeder fish. They are now in my 20 gallon tank cycling away. One got sucked on to the filter intake, so that leaves me with 5. Is this enough fish to do a proper cycle? I plan to start with a 3-5 inch fish and work up slowly from there.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

IMO, 1 fish is too many to do a cycle with. But then again, I am a firm believer in the fishless method. But if you are going to cycle with fish, feeder fish is not generally the way to go. They tend to have more diseases than other "cycle" fish such as danios. Are you using feeder guppies or feeder goldies? Unless you plan to stock your tank with the fish that you cycle with, fishless is the way to go.

 

[tyrel]

Im using gold fish.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Feeder goldfish tend to have more diseases and a higher death rate. Is there anyway that you can return them and get store credit and do it fishless? Or perhaps purchase a different fish such as zebra danios?

 

[Guest]

i agree with Fishyfanatic... feeder fish are the absolutely worst to cycle with... plus what are you going to do with them when your done? You can't keep goldfish in a very small tank... and if you want to keep tropicals you can't keep tropicals with goldfish.

 

[tyrel]

The feeder fish are going back to the local fish store when im done. Then im putting an african butterfly fish in. The fish are in the tank, and very healthy.
I really need to know if 5 small feeders is enough to cycle with. I know this can be a controversial subject, But I really need the awnswer to my question right now.

thanks.

 

[rich311k]

It is plenty of fish load. I dont agree with your plan either. Watch your new fish closely for disease after your done.

 

[Guest]

What size is your tank? The tank size depends on how much to cycle with. I cycled my 55 gallon tank with 5 zebra danios and it worked just fine, but Feeder fish produce a lot more ammonia. And even though you don't see a disease, when you put your other fish in, they can pick something up, which is why the feeder fish are such a bad choice to cycle with.

 

[Guest]

Feeder fish produce a lot more ammonia.

How so? How do five feeder guppies produce more ammonia than five standard guppies?

 

[tetrin]

Feeder fish produce a lot more ammonia.

i think she meant feeder goldfish. since the amount of wastes are generally proportional to the body mass and metabolic rates, feeder goldies do produce more waste than feeder or normal guppies.

coming back to the original question, i think 5 would be enough to cycle a 20g l. but two to three would do as well, with less stress on the fish.
HTH

 

[Guest]

what i meant is goldfish in general produce higher ammounts of waste than other fish... Like Plecos are huge poo producers!

 

[TomK2]

Well, those feeder goldies might succumb to the stress of cycling a tank. Just because they are cheap doesn't mean they are hardy. I bet the one that was stuck to your filter intake died first, then floated over there and got attached to the filter intake. 5 goldies in a tank your size will definitely produce an ammonia followed by a nitrite spike. Plus, if you have a heater going, I bet the temp is too high for them. I am in favor of cycling with fish, if it is done humanely. By my estimate one goldie would cycle your tank over 4 to 6 weeks. Or three zebra danios. It is better to start with a very low fish load, never see an ammonia spike, never see a nitrite spike, and end up with a cycled tank showing increased nitrates in about 6 weeks. I have a website devoted to the topic at:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

Going slow with a low bioload is every bit as humane as cycling with other ammonia sources, requires as much patience and care, but at least gives you a fish to look at during the cycle. However, if you are not patient, overfeed, and won't do water changes if ammonia and nitrite rise, then its not very kind to the fish.

 

[tyrel]

ok. Thank you for all your opinions. Ill try to use some of your advice tom. Sorry if I got anyone wound up, Its my first tank, and im still learning.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I realize that you are still learning, and don't mean to come off harsh, but that's the way we all learn. We make mistakes and learn from them and try to pass that knowledge off onto other new aquarists. You aren't the fish person to jump head first into the hobby and won't be the last. We're just trying to save you some headaches. Also, be prepeared for tons of water changes. With fish like that that produce alot of waste, you'll be doing daily water changes on the tank until it is cycled.

 

[caudelfin]

Now that fishless cycling works and works well, I never use fish to cycle a tank. And when I did use fish, goldfish were not the way to go, I used Zebra Danios a tough little fish and I kept them protected from ammonia by using Amquel (now I recommend Prime) and when the nitrite started I protected them from it by changing the water, as much as 50% daily and once in the peak period I changed 50% in the morning and 50% again before I went to bed at night. Never lost a one and they lived for a long time afterward.

Goldfish in fact no fish in MHO should be used as a fish to cycle a tank. But that is just my opinion. Oh, the nitrogen cycle did not run any longer than it does when using fishless cycling most of the time. About 35 to 40 days before I added fish. When I started using fishless cycle the time frame was about the same. However, the last tank that I cycled using fishless cycling was up in 18 days the ammonia lasted about 11 days and the nitrite was gone in 7 days. I think there must have been some of the nitrite converting bacteria was still in the tank. I started adding fish in 25 days as I increased the ammonia daily until the 25th day when I added the 8 Tigers and 3 Otos and there was no ammonia peak after I put them in. Still no ammonia peak and it is now 32 days.
caudelfin

 

[tyrel]

Thanks. I dint jump head first into this though, I reasearched for months and thats the info I got. Oh well.

 

[TomK2]

Sorry if I got anyone wound up, Its my first tank, and im still learning.

tyrel,
no problem! Actually, if you stick around the forum you will find that your story and questions are quite common. I think that some find it a little frustrating to go over the same basic stuff so frequently, but I blame the retailers that sell fish tanks to newcomers for this. A person interested in aquariums gets SOLD stuff, but not TOLD stuff! Ultimately, that is how and why AA came about, and why it prospers, Aquarium owners united to help other aquarium owners.

So now you are cycling a tank with fish, time to make the best of it. Dont be afraid to ask questions, or feel bad that you are doing things this way. It will all work out, and in a few weeks you will be on your way in a fantastic and rewarding hobby. Since you are just starting out, think about some of the things you will need, and order them online from bigalsonline or petsolutions. You can save quite a bit that way. Things like pythons for water changes, FW master test kits, filters, scrapers and such are all readily availble, usually quite a bit cheaper even with the shiping charges. If you don't already have them, the Aquarium pharmaceutical FW master test kit (with nitrate test) and a Python water changes would be my recommendations for your first purchases.

 

[erik7]

I cycled with 6 zebra danios (in my 29 gallon) and was fine. Not a single loss. They're still swimming great.

 

[fish_4_all]

I would use guppies. They should survive the process if the tank is taken care of with water changes and if your butterfly fish will eat them then all the better when you go to put it in.

I would say a dozen would be a good start and let them breed. The more fish the higher numbers of beneficial bacteria you should get. Then when you drop down on the bioload the bacteria will simply die down to the numbers needed to support the tank. Just don't let the number get too high or your system will crash. I would say 20 or so would be safe and happy and set up your tank nicely.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

20 guppies in a 20 gal tank? Don't cycle with that many. In order to keep the dangerous ammouna and nitrite levels at bay, use as few fish as possible.

Do you have a water test kit yet?

African Butterflyfish are pretty cool, I used to have a few. They don't go after fish as much as I have read they would. I had them with African Cichlid Fry and they never bothered them.