My first cichlid tank.

[Oohitsae]

I'm officially at the beginnings of starting a 55 gallon African Mbuna tank.
I set it up and started my cycle today so I don't have much going on in it yet, but am looking foreword to it being ready.

I have 6 psuedotropheus salousi fry in a 29g QT right now, they are about 1" and will remain in there until the 55 cycles.
I also ordered a group of 6 electric blue johanni's (melanochromis johanni) yesterday that will be here Wednesday. They are about a 1/2" according to the auction info and will be going into a 20L qt until the 55 cycles as well. Or until they catch up to the Salousi's if they are significantly smaller when they get here.

Could I add anything else? 12 seems like a good amount but I hear a lot of people saying to overstock the tanks in order to keep aggression down so should I add more?
Could I add some sort of bottom feeder like Cory's to the tank if adding more cichlids to the tank isn't a good idea?

I also wanted to mention that I do have a 75g in my garage just waiting for a good reason to be set up and if these guys work out for me I'll eventually transfer them over there but I don't want to set it up until I know for sure that these guys are something I want to continue with.


Any advice on these guys or on aqua scaping?
Right now the tank is bare minus filtration and sand substrate. Considering adding some gravel to it as well. I'll also be adding some different types of rocks to create caves and some cichlid stones over time before I add everyone to it, probably piecing it together from things left over from other tanks.

Would plastic plants be okay?
And what about breeding later on, will one species breed with the other even though there are plenty of their own kind to spawn with?

I think that's all for now.
Any advice would be appreciated! This is my first tank with cichlids besides my apistos and convict juvies

 

[Oohitsae]

Bump..

I know, I know, I'm being impatient lol I'm just really getting excited about the possibilities of this tank and would like some help with the stocking if anyone has advise

 

[Cecil2010]

Lets see what I can answer for you.

12 is a fine number to start with as you don't want to add too many too quickly. I would say once the tank has cycled to add the fish over a 2-3 hour period. If you add too many fish at once it will throw off your Ph and possibly kill your fish.

For a bottom feeder Cory's are a no go with cichlids. I would recommend a chinese algae eater or two, or possibly some kind of Synodontis.

for scaping, the sand is fine and if you wanted to add gravel that would be fine too. that is mainly your preference. For large rocks, you will want a lot of them as this will let the cichlids create their own boundaries and territories. saying that, whenever you do a water change you will want to change the position of all the rocks to avoid aggression. you will also want to go with holy rock, lava rock, or lace rock as these will help maintain the proper Ph balance for the cichlids.

If you wanted to do plants at all then plastic is what you want with cichlids. Cichlids are diggers by nature and will uproot any and all live plants.

I hope that I have answered most of your questions.

Anything else?

 

[bmarine]

Glad you're starting an African tank! They are great!

Stocking: it is good to overstock an african tank. You could probably do about 15-18 in a tank your size, but i'd stick to the lower side.

Fish: IME both Johannis and saulosis are really aggressive. Plus Johannis and male saulosis are both blue, so I don't know if you would like all the blue in your tank.

Aquascape: Africans like to dig, so i'd suggest sticking purely to sand and not adding gravel. Definitely have a lot of caves and places to hide. Plastic plants are definitely fine because the africans will just tear up live ones.

Breeding: All Malawi cichlids can interbreed with eachother and most likely will. There is an easy chance that one species will breed with the other. It doesn't matter how many of their own kind there are, it'll still happen. If you want to breed, i'd suggest doing a species only tank or maybe 2 species that look completely different.

 

[bmarine]

Ahh sorry, i was in the middle of making my post when he posted! sorry if i repeated everything!

 

[Cecil2010]

Glad you're starting an African tank! They are great!

Stocking: it is good to overstock an african tank. You could probably do about 15-18 in a tank your size, but i'd stick to the lower side.

Fish: IME both Johannis and saulosis are really aggressive. Plus Johannis and male saulosis are both blue, so I don't know if you would like all the blue in your tank.

Aquascape: Africans like to dig, so i'd suggest sticking purely to sand and not adding gravel. Definitely have a lot of caves and places to hide. Plastic plants are definitely fine because the africans will just tear up live ones.

Breeding: All Malawi cichlids can interbreed with eachother and most likely will. There is an easy chance that one species will breed with the other. It doesn't matter how many of their own kind there are, it'll still happen. If you want to breed, i'd suggest doing a species only tank or maybe 2 species that look completely different.

There is some good info in here that i left out!

 

[bmarine]

Haha back at ya! I totally agree with everything you mentioned! Synos are definitely cool! And changing the scape around is always good too!

 

[Cecil2010]

on a side note with the breeding. 9 times out of 10 a cichlid will choose their own species to breed with when in a mixed environment if the opportunity is there. But there is still a possibility of cross breeding.

And also those are some of the more aggressive species and tough to manage if this is your first cichlid setup.

 

[Oohitsae]

Thanks for all the help! I'll definitely stick with sand. So far I've got a good amount of lava rock left over from previous tanks that I'll be putting into it, probably some zebra rock and slate as well. along with cichlid stones whenever I have time to order them as nobody local carries them. I doubt I'll use plants even plastic as I've already got too many other tanks to maintain plant wise. Plus it makes for easier cleaning if I only have to move rocks. I've heard that they are aggressive, but I think I can manage, I've got a good amount of experience, just not with Africans so I think I can handle it, I've got a few back up tanks as well for time out/removal/fry if/when need be. I'm really not the biggest fan of the salousi, there are much cooler mbuna's out there that I would have rather gone with but a local guy gave me a good deal on them and I figure I can sell them to make room for others later on. The Johanni's I'll be keeping no matter what as they are my favorite out of all the ones I've spent time looking at these past couple of months.


I would really like to add some more color to the tank. I'm really liking albinos so maybe something that route? Or some red/orange? Any suggestions on something like that that stays around 5" and is fairly common that I can fill the rest of the space up with?


As for what I'm going to do when it finishes cycling is add the Salousi first. I've had them for the longest so they'll have been QT'd for plenty of time by then. Then the Johanni's a couple weeks later, and then the last group after another month most likely. I want to make sure everyone is QT'd for at least a month before adding them to the DT. Don't want to risk any disease or cycling issues. Is this okay? Or should they all be added within the same period so territory can all be established at once?

Oh and with the breeding, would it be less likely to have cross breeding if I got different colors? I don't mind culling fry if they turn out to be crosses, that's what I have my clawed frogs for but I'd like to avoid it as much as possible for a mixed tank.

 

[bmarine]

Yeah very true, but just be careful, you don't want to sell crossbreeds.

What i would do is just keep it a show tank for now, and get to know how they act, and then when you feel ready, make a species tank and try breeding.

Labidochromis caeruleus are a good, pretty peaceful species to start with.

 

[bmarine]

Thanks for all the help! I'll definitely stick with sand. So far I've got a good amount of lava rock left over from previous tanks that I'll be putting into it, probably some zebra rock and slate as well. along with cichlid stones whenever I have time to order them as nobody local carries them. I doubt I'll use plants even plastic as I've already got too many other tanks to maintain plant wise. Plus it makes for easier cleaning if I only have to move rocks. I've heard that they are aggressive, but I think I can manage, I've got a good amount of experience, just not with Africans so I think I can handle it, I've got a few back up tanks as well for time out/removal/fry if/when need be. I'm really not the biggest fan of the salousi, there are much cooler mbuna's out there that I would have rather gone with but a local guy gave me a good deal on them and I figure I can sell them to make room for others later on. The Johanni's I'll be keeping no matter what as they are my favorite out of all the ones I've spent time looking at these past couple of months.

I would really like to add some more color to the tank. I'm really liking albinos so maybe something that route? Or some red/orange? Any suggestions on something like that that stays around 5" and is fairly common that I can fill the rest of the space up with?

As for what I'm going to do when it finishes cycling is add the Salousi first. I've had them for the longest so they'll have been QT'd for plenty of time by then. Then the Johanni's a couple weeks later, and then the last group after another month most likely. I want to make sure everyone is QT'd for at least a month before adding them to the DT. Don't want to risk any disease or cycling issues. Is this okay? Or should they all be added within the same period so territory can all be established at once?

Oh and with the breeding, would it be less likely to have cross breeding if I got different colors? I don't mind culling fry if they turn out to be crosses, that's what I have my clawed frogs for but I'd like to avoid it as much as possible for a mixed tank.

You could probably find some albinos, just make sure they can hold their own. And its fine if you add them at different times, but just change around the rockscape so the ones already in the tank don't have territories. With breeding, It would be a little less likely, but easily possible. I had a red zebra breed with a johanni, so it can definitely still happen.

 

[bmarine]

Sorry to post again, but what if you did Melanochromis maingano? They look very similar to Johanni, but aren't as aggressive.

Then you could maybe do a stock like
5 maingano
5 yellow labs
5 Rusties (rusty cichlids have a unique color and are really cool and pretty peaceful!)

But if you don't like that, you could maybe try some victorian species as a third one. They are very colorful, can live with mbuna, and are quite aggressive so they can hold their own.

 

[Oohitsae]

Sorry to post again, but what if you did Melanochromis maingano? They look very similar to Johanni, but aren't as aggressive.

Then you could maybe do a stock like
5 maingano
5 yellow labs
5 Rusties (rusty cichlids have a unique color and are really cool and pretty peaceful!)

But if you don't like that, you could maybe try some victorian species as a third one. They are very colorful, can live with mbuna, and are quite aggressive so they can hold their own.

I already ordered the Johanni and they are already on their way here so I don't have the option to change that.
Would that idea still work with Johanni?

 

[bmarine]

It could, except the rusties and labs are gonna be bullied a lot. They are some of the more peaceful mbuna.

You could do the
5-6 Johanni
5 victorians
And 5 of another mbuna thats a different color and pretty aggressive

 

[Oohitsae]

Any suggestion on the other Mbuna? There are soo many out there with so much varying infothat it seems like it'd be hard to find a good one myself. That's what happened to me with the johanni's, said their difficulty level was a 2 out of 10 so I assumed that they'd be okay in a cichlid community.
As for Victorians, will most of them be able to handle themselves?

I really hate asking all these questions. Usually I'm the one giving out advice and this time I am actually fairly clueless! Kind of weird, now I see what all the newbies go through!

 

[bmarine]

Any suggestion on the other Mbuna? There are soo many out there with so much varying infothat it seems like it'd be hard to find a good one myself. That's what happened to me with the johanni's, said their difficulty level was a 2 out of 10 so I assumed that they'd be okay in a cichlid community.
As for Victorians, will most of them be able to handle themselves?

I really hate asking all these questions. Usually I'm the one giving out advice and this time I am actually fairly clueless! Kind of weird, now I see what all the newbies go through!

Haha yup i understand! But its better to ask questions and get it right instead of screwing up the tank!
Anyway, most victorians are classified as aggressive and can definitely hold their own. My 3 inch victorian male was always fighting for dominance with my 5 inch mbuna and could do some pretty serious damage to them! Almost all the species should be compatible with Johanni. And at the moment i'm trying to find some nice yellow mbuna for ya thats pretty aggressive! I'll let you know what i find!
If you find one that you like, take a look at maybe 5 different species profiles of it to see what they say.

 

[slayer72]

Thanks for all the help! I'll definitely stick with sand. So far I've got a good amount of lava rock left over from previous tanks that I'll be putting into it, probably some zebra rock and slate as well. along with cichlid stones whenever I have time to order them as nobody local carries them. I doubt I'll use plants even plastic as I've already got too many other tanks to maintain plant wise. Plus it makes for easier cleaning if I only have to move rocks. I've heard that they are aggressive, but I think I can manage, I've got a good amount of experience, just not with Africans so I think I can handle it, I've got a few back up tanks as well for time out/removal/fry if/when need be. I'm really not the biggest fan of the salousi, there are much cooler mbuna's out there that I would have rather gone with but a local guy gave me a good deal on them and I figure I can sell them to make room for others later on. The Johanni's I'll be keeping no matter what as they are my favorite out of all the ones I've spent time looking at these past couple of months.

I would really like to add some more color to the tank. I'm really liking albinos so maybe something that route? Or some red/orange? Any suggestions on something like that that stays around 5" and is fairly common that I can fill the rest of the space up with?

As for what I'm going to do when it finishes cycling is add the Salousi first. I've had them for the longest so they'll have been QT'd for plenty of time by then. Then the Johanni's a couple weeks later, and then the last group after another month most likely. I want to make sure everyone is QT'd for at least a month before adding them to the DT. Don't want to risk any disease or cycling issues. Is this okay? Or should they all be added within the same period so territory can all be established at once?

Oh and with the breeding, would it be less likely to have cross breeding if I got different colors? I don't mind culling fry if they turn out to be crosses, that's what I have my clawed frogs for but I'd like to avoid it as much as possible for a mixed tank.

Albino socolofi are pretty common. Red zebras are also common. Both are pretty tough and could hang with the johanni.

 

[bmarine]

Both are good suggestions. Red Zebras are a decent color and pretty aggressive. Just be careful because they do look kinda similar to female johannis, so they may interbreed easier.

 

[Oohitsae]

Haha yup i understand! But its better to ask questions and get it right instead of screwing up the tank!
Anyway, most victorians are classified as aggressive and can definitely hold their own. My 3 inch victorian male was always fighting for dominance with my 5 inch mbuna and could do some pretty serious damage to them! Almost all the species should be compatible with Johanni. And at the moment i'm trying to find some nice yellow mbuna for ya thats pretty aggressive! I'll let you know what i find!
If you find one that you like, take a look at maybe 5 different species profiles of it to see what they say.

Thanks for all the help! I definitely appreciate it even though i don't like to ask for it lol it'll definitely help me out a LOT!
So I'll definitely take a look at some Victorians. Is it true that all Africans can breed with each other or is that another Internet lie?
Are there any smaller ones that you would recommend?

I'll be takin a look at all the ones suggested already once I get my laptop charged back up.

 

[bmarine]

Sounds good! And it's at least true for cichlids in Lake Malawi and Victoria. As I said before, I had some mbuna that interbred, and there are also plenty others on here who have had it too.
As for smaller mbuna, I'm not quite sure of any. But I have a few ideas for Victorians if you want them.