Newbie just starting fishless cycle on new 25 gal tank

[cwmont13]

Just to play devil's advocate here: you did remember to add dechlorinator with the water change, right?

You mean I'm supposed to add something to the tap water? Just kidding Yep I did a double dose of Prime when I did the water change.

 

[librarygirl]

LOL Sorry, just checking

 

[cwmont13]

LOL Sorry, just checking

Never hurts to check. When in doubt double and triple check! You never know when you might miss something.

Thanks

 

[cwmont13]

jlk - tapwater PH readings

Whether the safestart works or not is debatable. Some people swear by it! Theres no harm in giving it a try. If you do, please let us know how this product works for you! Not having a bacterial bloom is not of any concern. I have never had one fishless cycling & have only encountered them doing a fish-in cycle. Dont worry about it!

OK I tested a sample of my tapwater after letting it sit out and stirring it off and on for roughly 24 hours. The readings are as follows: (pic attached)

ph color is darker than the 7.6 max on the chart

hph I'm reading it as 8.0

The ph color in the tank and tap look the same. The hph color in the tank is definitely more towards the purple than the tapwater reading. Not as dark as the 8.4 reading but slightly more purple than the brown in the 8.2 on the chart.

Ammonia color looks to be in between 2 ppm and 1 ppm on the chart. So it's dropping but very slowly.

Looking back through the thread and my notes, I see that my initial 2ppm dose after the 100% WC on 07/02 dropped from 2 ppm to 050 ppm in 4 days. I redosed back up to 2 ppm on 07/06 so it's been 8 days with very little movement. Seems like I'm doing everything right but it's just being difficult

The only thing I can add is that about a year ago the city added equipment to the big water storage tanks in my area to remove arsenic from the water. Don't know if they are using chemicals to remove it but the equipment just looks like a series of very large filters that pass water from the UG pumps through them and then out to the storage tank. Any thoughts on that?

Looks like I'm stalled right now. So what now? 50% PWC with double dose of Prime, redose ammonia back up to 2 ppm? Or should I dose up back to 4 ppm?

Not sure on using the SafeStart or not. I googled it and like you said, it's a love / hate thing. If something doesn't start my cycle moving along, I may have to try it.

OK where do we go now?

As usual a BIG for your help.

 

[jlk]

Thanks! Your tank ph makes sense because its pretty much the same as your tap. Looking at the pic, it looks like 8.2 but pics can be deceptive. Nothing to be concerned about!

Ok, I have no clue what they added to your water system to remove arsenic! Ill have to some looking to see if I can find out some more info. But it sounds like your water is being heavily processed. This is just something to consider- its possible that perhaps your water is lacking some key mineral if its being heavily processed. You can try adding a product such as RO Right or Seachems Replenish & see if this makes any difference. No guarentees but it also wont hurt anything either so its worth a try (sw section of lfs).

For now, wc & dose back to 2ppm. Keep us posted!

 

[cwmont13]

WC done ammonia at 2 ppm

Thanks! Your tank ph makes sense because its pretty much the same as your tap. Looking at the pic, it looks like 8.2 but pics can be deceptive. Nothing to be concerned about!

Ok, I have no clue what they added to your water system to remove arsenic! Ill have to some looking to see if I can find out some more info. But it sounds like your water is being heavily processed. This is just something to consider- its possible that perhaps your water is lacking some key mineral if its being heavily processed. You can try adding a product such as RO Right or Seachems Replenish & see if this makes any difference. No guarentees but it also wont hurt anything either so its worth a try (sw section of lfs).

For now, wc & dose back to 2ppm. Keep us posted!

Sunday @ 3:30 pm

50% PWC - double dose of Prime and dosed ammonia back up to 2 ppm.

The waiting continues

 

[cwmont13]

ARSENIC treatment info, local WQ report and latest tank readings

Ok, I have no clue what they added to your water system to remove arsenic! Ill have to some looking to see if I can find out some more info. But it sounds like your water is being heavily processed. This is just something to consider- its possible that perhaps your water is lacking some key mineral if its being heavily processed. You can try adding a product such as RO Right or Seachems Replenish & see if this makes any difference. No guarentees but it also wont hurt anything either so its worth a try (sw section of lfs).

For now, wc & dose back to 2ppm. Keep us posted!

My ammonia reading this morning was "almost" down to 1 ppm, so it's still VERY slow at converting any amount of ammonia. Ph and hph readings are the same.

I did some research on how my city is treating the arsenic in the local water. Here's what I found out.

Ther are using a process called "coagulation/filtration" for the arsenic treatment here in my neighborhood. Below is a link to a short description of the process. This is in regards to another area locally but the same process is used in my area. So far I haven't been able to find out what chemicals are being used but I'm working on it. I'm going to call the local water company and see if they can get me the info on it.

http://www.surpriseaz.gov/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3577

edit: Here's the link from my water company with the water quality report. Maybe someone who knows water readings can have a look and see if anything jumps out on there.

http://www.epcor.com/water/wq/wq-aqua-fria-2011.pdf

Right now I'm in a holding pattern of sorts because I'm getting ready for my vacation and my Daughter starting 1st grade. When I get back, time to get serious about figuring out why my tanks not cycling properly.

 

[jlk]

Thanks for the information! I am not a water expert by any means here but I did do some reading on the coagulation filtration. Evidently iron & magnese are removed in the process but theres may other things that are removed as well (??). I could not find specifics on chemicals used. Now, in fw, iron & magnese are not things normally tested. I do not profess any great knowledge of sw but found references to testing these levels for maintaining aquarium health in sw. So, its possible that this may be factor to consider here thats somehow playing a role. Nothing stands out on your water report (to me anyway!) other than the average range for your chlorine levels which run from low to high. Hopefully, someone with more water quality experience can provide a better analysis of your water report or may have some input on the science behind how your water is processed to remove arsenic.

 

[cwmont13]

more info on arsenic treatment

Thanks for the information! I am not a water expert by any means here but I did do some reading on the coagulation filtration. Evidently iron & magnese are removed in the process but theres may other things that are removed as well (??). I could not find specifics on chemicals used. Now, in fw, iron & magnese are not things normally tested. I do not profess any great knowledge of sw but found references to testing these levels for maintaining aquarium health in sw. So, its possible that this may be factor to consider here thats somehow playing a role. Nothing stands out on your water report (to me anyway!) other than the average range for your chlorine levels which run from low to high. Hopefully, someone with more water quality experience can provide a better analysis of your water report or may have some input on the science behind how your water is processed to remove arsenic.

Here's a powerpoint slide show I found that runs through the process. I'm no water expert so most of the stuff is way over my head but maybe someone who understands it can look and chime in.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wKjdDw&usg=AFQjCNGcj--k1eAnudr-pxwvVgsQr0N8EA

 

[cwmont13]

Just checkin in with an update

Well I just checked my ammonia reading and it still hasn't dropped since I checked it on the 18th. Still around 1 to 1.5 ppm.

I honestly have no idea why it's not dropping but I think my water is INDEED the problem. I'm getting ready to leave town tomorrow for a much needed 5 day vacation and I'm just going to let the tank do it's thing till I get back. Maybe I'll get lucky and it will be starting to go when I return.

If not, then back to square one. Get some RO Right or Seachems Replenish, some seeded media from Angles Plus and have at it.

Take care I'll check in when I return from vacation.

 

[jlk]

Enjoy your vacation & hopefully there will be a change when you get back!

 

[cwmont13]

Enjoy your vacation & hopefully there will be a change when you get back!

Thanks

I feel there will be a change ......... a water change that is! LOL

 

[cwmont13]

OK back from vacation - latest tank readings

Got back late Wednesday and just got around to checking my levels last night.

Here's what I have now.

ph 7.6
hph 8.4
ammonia looks to be slightly below 1 ppm. Haven't added any ammonia since the 50% WC and 2 ppm dose on 07/15 .

trites 0
trates 5.0 (same as my tapwater)

Ammonia is dropping albeit very slowly. Maybe my tank is just deciding to cycle along at a snails pace.

I'm thinking about letting it ride for another week while I get my Daughter back to school. Then I'll have time to get a bit more involved with getting the tank done. If the ammonia still hasn't dropped, proceed to other options. Namely some active sponges from angels plus along with the RO Right or Seachems Replenish as was suggested.

 

[cwmont13]

My ammonia is still dropping slowly so I'm hanging in there. It looks like I might be starting to see some action. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[cwmont13]

Ammonia still dropping slowly

My cycle is slow but at least I'm seeing ammonia dropping. Looks to be about 0.50 ppm right now so it's slowly coming down. When it hits 0.25 ppm I'll redose back up to 2 ppm and wait it out again. I'm OK with moving slowly as long as it's processing some ammonia. Still no trItes yet.

I keep telling myself that patience is a virtue Hoping things start moving along a bit quicker when I redose. If not, move to plan B and get active sponges from Angels Plus and go for it again.

Here's a pic

 

[jlk]

Keep us posted!!

 

[cwmont13]

FINALLY getting some action

OK here's an update. My ammonia was still dropping very slowly and basically going nowhere so while waiting and searching here I found this article.

Tips and Tricks For Your Fastest Fishless Cycle! - Aquarium Advice

I thought I'd have nothing to lose by trying the advice in the article. The only thing I did different was using Tetra SafeStart to seed the tank. I did some searching on various forums and like anything else, some had success and some didn't using TSS in a fishless cycle. The local big box had it on sale so I thought why not try it. My cycle was going nowhere fast so nothing to lose.

On the morning of the 6th I added the drops of PH Down, a very small pinch of flake food, topped off the water, and dosed to 2ppm. That night I dumped in a whole bottle of TSS (the up to 30 gallon size). Started checking ammonia and it was dropping faster than before. On the 9th it was at 0.25 so I redosed back up to 2ppm. No nitrItes showing up though. Just because I hadn't checked for nitrAtes in quite some time, I decided to check and to my surprise I found I had about 40ppm going on. I don't know if I had a spike and missed it or if the TSS made my tank convert the trItes real fast.

By the morning of 12th my ammonia was almost at zero so I redosed back to 2ppm. Just checked tonight and it's around 1ppm so it's starting to drop way faster. NitrItes are still at zero and NitrAtes are darker in color so it looks like they are between 40 and 80 ppm right now. PH is at 7.6 and HPH is up to between 8.4 and 8.8.

I'm hoping things are going to continue to move along faster and will report back tomorrow.

 

[cwmont13]

Questions?? and status update

My readings as of 7:51 pm AZ time.

Ammonia is almost 0ppm (color is closer to yellow than the green of 0.25ppm)
nitrItes 0
nitrAtes 80ppm

PH 7.6
HPH between 8.4 and 8.8

So it looks like I'm getting closer to being able to process the 2 ppm of ammonia within a 24 hour period. Going to redose to 2ppm tonight after I post this and check levels in the morning.

So here's my questions

PWC or not? Do I need to build up buffers with a PWC or let it ride? Kinda don't want to mess with anything now that it looks like my tank is doing it's thing, but not sure?

When I get to the point where the tank can process the 2ppm in 24 hours, should I increase the dosage up to 3ppm and try to build up the bio filter more that way?

Or should I just do my big water change to get nitrAte levels down and add a "minimum" stocking of hearty fish, say 4 or 5 Zebra Danio's or Glofish and let the bio filter build up as I increase stock down the road?

Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated

 

[cwmont13]

Current readings

As of 8:50 pm AZ time my ammonia is just shy of the 0.50 color. I expect it to be almost at 0 ppm in the morning. Then redose to 2 ppm and keep checking. I'm expecting to see nitrAtes rise some more and still not sure why I never saw any nitrItes? Looks like everything is moving along though.

All other tank readings are the same as yesterday.

nitrItes 0
nitrAtes 80ppm
PH 7.6
HPH between 8.4 and 8.8

 

[jlk]

Wow!!!! This product has really helped you! Ok, as long as your ph is staying stable, there's no need for a wc (yet). I am not positive because I have never used this product but I believe your not supposed to do a wc for 2wks or something?? I know I've read something along those lines before but don't recall exactly what it was. Follow the directions!

Where you want to proceed once your tank steadily zeroing out 2ppm amm in 24hrs is up to you. I just would be a bit hesitant to add fish until I was positive the tank is processing amm on its own (with no product influencing it). I would work on increasing the amm dose by .5 over a few days (up to 3 or higher if you want) just to see how things go. What I am wondering though is when you do a big wc to drop your nitrates (and product is removed), will your tank still continue to process amm as efficiently. It will be interesting to see what happens! Keep us posted!!