Newbie just starting fishless cycle on new 25 gal tank

[cwmont13]

Wow!!!! This product has really helped you! Ok, as long as your ph is staying stable, there's no need for a wc (yet). I am not positive because I have never used this product but I believe your not supposed to do a wc for 2wks or something?? I know I've read something along those lines before but don't recall exactly what it was. Follow the directions!

I'll read up a bit more on the TSS and the WC because I'm pretty sure I read the same thing about the two weeks. PH has so far remained stable. My HPH readings are up but have stayed the same.

Where you want to proceed once your tank steadily zeroing out 2ppm amm in 24hrs is up to you. I just would be a bit hesitant to add fish until I was positive the tank is processing amm on its own (with no product influencing it). I would work on increasing the amm dose by .5 over a few days (up to 3 or higher if you want) just to see how things go. What I am wondering though is when you do a big wc to drop your nitrates (and product is removed), will your tank still continue to process amm as efficiently. It will be interesting to see what happens! Keep us posted!!

I'm leaning towards adding the small amounts of amm to raise the level and see if it processes on it's own. I guess as long as I don't get a PH crash, I'll probably hold off on any WC till I'm sure the tank is doing its thing on it's own.

Will keep you posted.

 

[cwmont13]

nitrItes checking in

Tank status for today 08/16/2012

12:30 pm ammonia at 0ppm - redosed to 2 ppm - no other levels checked

4:42 pm had time to check levels

ammonia @ 2 ppm
nitrItes @ 0.25 ppm (finally have some showing up)
nitrAtes @ between 40 / 80 ppm

I'll be watching those nitrItes closer now, keeping an eye on my PH levels, and continuing the same dosages. It's been 10 days since I added the TSS. Still have the heater up, the water a bit low to get some filter splash, and my bubble wand cranked up too. Tank water is crystal clear.

 

[jlk]

Keep us posted!

 

[cwmont13]

Tank readings so far 08/17/2012

Update on 08/17/2012

Seems like the tank is almost on auto pilot right now.

08/17 12:34 pm

ammonia @ 0.25 ppm - so almost turning 2 ppm in 24 hours

nitrItes @ 0.25 ppm - very low but that might be the TSS keeping them down or they just haven't or are not going to spike

nitrAtes @ 40/80 ppm - color is hard for me to judge but I'd guess closer to the 40 ppm

PH 7.6

HPH 8.2/8.4 ppm - color is not as brown as 8.2 but not as purple as 8.4

Water needs topped off again so will do that today. I've been adding Prime to my topoff water but I read that some people suggest not using Prime along with TSS. So far I'm not having issues.

Going to continue on dosing to 2 ppm and let er ride

On Monday the 20th it will have been 14 days since I added the TSS. If everything still looks good, I'm going to try going up to 2.5 or 3 ppm and see what happens.

 

[jlk]

Sounds like things are going well!!!

 

[cwmont13]

OK the latest readings - I have questions?

Sounds like things are going well!!!

Here we go 08/17/2012 @ 10:42 pm

redosed to 2 ppm

08/18/2012 @ 3.38 pm

ammonia @ 0.50 - dropping pretty quick now

nitrItes @ 1 ppm or slightly higher - they are on the rise from the constant 0.25 ppm I've been seeing. Good or bad?

nitrAtes @ almost 160 ppm - that's a big jump from my 40/80 ppm I've been seeing. Good or bad?

ph @ 7.6 - it's been at that since I first set up the tank.

hph @ 8.0 - thats DOWN from the 8.4 I had yesterday. Good or bad?

I want to make sure I don't have any PH issues. Should I be concerned about the HPH going down?

Not sure about the nitrItes rising as they have been at 0.25 ppm but my reading could be skewed from the added TSS. Maybe starting to see a nitrIte spike ahead? I had nitrAtes before nitrItes. I thought you had to get a nitrIte spike "before" nitrAtes?

nitrAtes are climbing quickly and are almost off the chart. Let it ride, or get ready for a PWC to bring the levels down to a readable area?

A bit confused but glad that my tank is showing movement in all areas.

 

[jlk]

All looks well but keep a close eye on that ph. I know theres the issue with water changes with this product but if it continues to steadily drop, a water change is a must to keep things from crashing. You have tons of conversion happening across the board so those buffers are being used up quickly! Things may not be proceeding in a 'textbook' manner but they are progressing well so I wouldnt be concerned at all!

 

[cwmont13]

ping jlk - PH??

All looks well but keep a close eye on that ph. I know theres the issue with water changes with this product but if it continues to steadily drop, a water change is a must to keep things from crashing. You have tons of conversion happening across the board so those buffers are being used up quickly! Things may not be proceeding in a 'textbook' manner but they are progressing well so I wouldnt be concerned at all!

tank readings 08/18/2012 10:17 pm

ammonia @ 0 ppm - tank is able to process 2 ppm ammonia in about a 24 hour period - redosed back up to 2 ppm

nitrItes are down again to almost 0.25 ppm which I'm guessing is good

nitrAtes - didn't check since they were so high this morning

ph @ 7.6

hph looks down a bit from the 8.0 reading this morning. looks to be somewhat lighter in color then the 8.0 but not as orange as the 7.8

Is it the hph readings dropping that I need to be concerned with? I sure don't want to stall.

From what I can gather regarding TSS, they don't recommend a WC till after 7 to 14 days. Monday will be 14 days so I'm probably good if I have to do a WC. Some have stated not to use Prime either with TSS but I've been using a small dose of it with all my top off water. Tetra also says don't use it with ammonia in a fishless cycle but from posts I saw in forums some people have had success with it fishless. So who knows.

I'm going to check the ph first thing in the morning and if the hph has dropped to 7.8 or below, do you think I should do a 50% PWC? Then redose back up to 2 ppm and see what happens?

 

[jlk]

The ph drop is because you have so much conversion happening & your buffer levels are being used up (bb need carbonates to process ammonia). Your good bacteria are not any different than fish (they are living beings) and function optimally at a steady ph. Ph changes affect them just the same. Your ph right now is no where low enough that it will stall your cycle but it will continue to steadily drop as more & more buffers are used. A wc will re-establish your buffer levels and stabilize your ph. Hope this makes sense!

 

[cwmont13]

jlk thanks I understand it better now. I'll continue to monitor ph and do a PWC if needed.

 

[cwmont13]

readings 08/19/2012

So far seems to be doing well. HPH is dropping a bit but not fast.

10:02 am
ph 7.6

hph 7.8

amm 0.50 ppm

nitrItes 2 ppm

nitrAtes 80 ppm

10:09 pm

ph 7.6

hph looks a bit lower than 7.8

ammonia 0

nitrItes 0

nitrAtes a bit darker than 80 ppm

redosed to a bit over 2 ppm

This is the first time I've had ammonia and nitrItes at 0ppm in 24 hours As long as it keeps turning both in 24 hours and my ph doesn't crash, I think I might finally be on the downhill side. I'll continue to keep an eye on ph and do a PWC if it starts crashing. So far I'm pretty confident that my cycle is going to turn out just fine.

If everything is still looking good over the next few days, I'll probably do a PWC to get buffers built back up, redose, and go from there. Still can't decide if I want to up the ammonia or just add a small stocking level of fish and build it up from there.

 

[cwmont13]

readings - please see attached pic?

The latest scoop

08/20 @ 12:08 pm

ph 7.6
hph 7.8/7.4 ?? hard time reading that
amm 0.25 ppm
nitrItes 0.50

9:26 pm

no change in ph/hph
amm 0 ppm
nitrItes 0 ppm
nitrAtes 80 ppmn

Took a chance and redosed up to 3 ppm this time

08/21 @ 11:22 am

ph 7.6

hph 7.8 / 7.4 not sure (see pic)?? Having a hard time reading hph right now.

amm I'm reading that at 0.50 ppm (14 hours after dosing to 3 ppm)

nitrItes I'm reading that at 2 ppm? (see pic) I'm assuming that the trIte reading is higher because I added more ammonia when I redosed to 3ppm so the tank is converting more amm > nitrItes

nitrAtes didn't check. I know they will be way high right now.

So how's everything look? To me it seems like everything's moving along smoothly.

 

[cwmont13]

Tank converting 3 ppm ammonia now

readings 08/21 9:53 pm

ph 7.8

hph 7.8

ammonia 0 ppm

nitrItes 0 ppm

redosed to 3 ppm

My tank was able to convert the 3 ppm ammonia dosage without issues.

Going to keep dosing at 3 ppm for a couple of days. If all goes well, I'm thinking of doing a PWC just to make sure the biofilter is converting on it's own and not being heavily influenced from the TSS I added. If it still converts after the PWC, I think I might be ready to do my big water change and start stocking.

Hoping for success

 

[jlk]

Looks good and sounds like a plan!!

 

[cwmont13]

ping jlk have question ammonia > nitrItes

OK

My tank is still rolling along and easily converts 3 ppm ammonia and nitrIte in 24 hours but I've noticed that my nitrIte is converting a bit slower than my ammonia.

I dose ammonia back up to 3 ppm around 9 or 10 pm as my ammonia and nitrIte are always at zero after 24 hours. However when I do my mid morning check around 12 hours later ammonia is 0 to 0.25 ppm but nitrIte is 1 ppm or a bit higher. It always converts to 0 ppm by that evening though. Is this normal?

If my ammonia is at 0 or 0.25 ppm after but nitrIte is higher at 12 hours, should I dose ammonia back up a bit?

nitrAtes are always consistently around 40 to 80 ppm.

Am I fussing too much over nothing (highly possible lol)?

 

[jlk]

Normal! As long as everything is converting in a 24hr period, there's nothing to worry about. And no need to add anymore amm before the 24hr mark. Dosing once aday is fine. Just remember that your adding a big dose of amm at once- your 1st set of bacteria may be converting most it within 12hrs but your 2nd set of bacteria can't even begin to work until the 1st set have processed the amm in the 1st place. So a bit of a lag is expected. Looks good!

 

[cwmont13]

Normal! As long as everything is converting in a 24hr period, there's nothing to worry about. And no need to add anymore amm before the 24hr mark. Dosing once aday is fine. Just remember that your adding a big dose of amm at once- your 1st set of bacteria may be converting most it within 12hrs but your 2nd set of bacteria can't even begin to work until the 1st set have processed the amm in the 1st place. So a bit of a lag is expected. Looks good!

jlk thanks! I'm going to do my PWC this weekend and make sure the tank still converts as usual. I'll post up my result.

 

[cwmont13]

50% PWC and readings ??

Did a 50% PWC and checked all levels 30 minutes later.

8/24 @ 10:00 am

ph 7.6
hph 7.8 - surprised it didn't go up after the PWC

ammonia 0 ppm - no surprise there

nitrItes 0.25 ppm - surprised with that I thought it would be at 0 after the PWC. I'm thinking I've been reading the color wrong and it's actually been higher than what I thought.

nitrAtes 80 ppm - now this DOES surprise me. I was sure that with the PWC they would be at or below 40 ppm. I did another check with 50% tank water and 50% tap water and they were almost at 40 ppm. I guess with a 100% WC they would be way down so I don't think there's anything to worry about.

Redosed ammonia and checked it 30 minutes later and it's bit more then 2 ppm.

Here's hoping everything still converts in 24 hours and that the PWC doesn't crash the cycle. Since I used the TSS to seed the tank, who knows?

Wish me luck I'm looking forward to finishing up my cycle and stocking the tank.

 

[cwmont13]

ping jlk - I think my tank is cycled - have a few questions ??

My tank is still able to easily process 3 ppm ammonia in 24 hours after the 50% WC. I'm feeling pretty good that it's finally cycling on it's own and that the TSS I added did help get a BB colony established in my tank. I'll probably continue to dose to 3 ppm until I get ready to add fish just to keep everything going.

Any thoughts?

OK here are my readings over the last couple days.

08/24 5m after 50% WC that morning

8/24 @ 5:00 pm
ammonia 0.50 ppm
nitrItes 2 ppm

08/24 9:24 pm
Ph 7.6
hph 7.8
ammonia 0.25
nitrIte 0.50

08/25 7:43 am
Ph 7.6
Hph 7.8
Ammonia 0 ppm
nitrItes 0 ppm

Redose to 3 ppm

8/25 9:15 pm
Ph 7.6
Hph 7.8
ammonia 0 ppm
nitrItes 1 ppm

08/26 9:59 am
Ph 7.6
Hph 8.0
Ammonia 0 ppm
nitrIte 0 ppm
nitrAte 80 ppm
Redosed to 3 ppm

Questions

When can I turn down the heater?

I know I have to do a 100% WC the night before my initial stocking of fish but here's where it gets tricky on my end. I'm in AZ and my tapwater out of the cold side is very hot this time of year, sometimes close to 90 degrees. The water temp in the tank usually drops down after about 24 hours with the aeration going on in the tank. So my thought is to fill three 5 gal buckets and add my Prime to each and let them sit out overnight while the water temp drops a bit. Thoughts on that?

I don't want to drop any new fish into 86 to 90 degree water! Also if I let the tank sit for 24 to 36 hours hours to let the water temp cool down, what about my BB? Will they be OK for that long without an ammonia source? Or should I just do a 1 ppm ammonia dose to keep things moving while I wait for the temp to drop, and then do a smaller PWC if nitrAtes are too high?

Your thought and help are appreciated

 

[jlk]

Things seem to be going well! It sounds like you have a good plan set forth here- I would set out the buckets & treat them the day before a water change (as long as this is feasible) so the temp is pretty much similar to your tank water. If you have the temp turned up in your tank, start dropping it by 1-2 degrees each day over the next couple of days until its at the temp you want. The only problem I potentially may foresee is that sometimes it takes more than one 100% water change to drop your nitrates down to a reasonable level (tap level)- hopefully, this wont be your case! Your tank will be fine for 24 or 48hrs (or longer) with no ammonia dosed, so dont worry about this! Just be prepared to test daily once you add fish to make sure everything is staying stable.