Nitrites

[pantherspawn]

yeah thats what i thought.. pretty big to have in a 5 gallon

 

[Revenantwing]

thats if they are in PERFECT condition. Well my tank isnt perfect. I could get 1 more apple snail but i also dont want little snail crawling everywhere

 

[allaboutfish]

oh well i think it'd be best with the fish you have it might take a long tim to get cycled but it's better for the fish

 

[jetajockey]

A 5g tank running for a month with 1 Betta is barely going to support a bacteria colony. The ammo being registered is mostly likely the bound chlorine from the tap and it's harmless to a fish.

I see people getting so caught up in cycling tanks for months on end to build a colony of bacteria like they're going to put 50 inches of fish in a 5g tank. Then 99% of that massive colony dies off because it can only support the miniscule bio-load that's actually ends up in the tank. I don't know about you, but I'm a fish keeper and not a bacteria keeper lol.

Bound chloramine that gets broken down through water conditioner, sure, its possible. The op should test some freshly dechlorinated tap water to be sure
. This is also why I do my testing at least a day after a wc, so the bacteria have had ample time to eat any ammonia that may have come in through the tap.
Fwiw, I typically do fish-in cycling. Plenty of people keep a solo betta in a small tank and they are cycled just fine. I have one in. 6g fluval chi and have never had issues.

One great benefit to understocking is that the water quality stays better for longer (bioload wise)

A single betta can and will cycle a tank. Cycling can take 6 to 8 weeks depending on conditions, but if someone is consistently getting ammonia readings, even small ones, and no nitrates, then you should not tell them they are cycled.

Telling someone they are cycled implies that the bacteria is doing its job and one can stop frequently testing. If that happens at this point we might end up seeing a betta hit with ammonia poisoning, or even nitrite poisoning.

@ the op, don't increase your bioload just for the sake of it, it could create more problems than solutions. Your stock can and will cycle your tank just fine.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Bound chloramine that gets broken down through water conditioner, sure, its possible. The op should test some freshly dechlorinated tap water to be sure. This is also why I do my testing at least a day after a wc, so the bacteria have had ample time to eat any ammonia that may have come in through the tap.

Prime does take Chloramine and convert it to ammo and they readily admit it. Unless testing right after adding Prime, you WILL get a false positive.

Seachem. Prime FAQ

One great benefit to understocking is that the water quality stays better for longer (bioload wise)

True. IMO with java moss over running her tank, and java fern growing even poorly (possibly mis-planted) allows the water parameters to stay well with in safe levels, as they will soak up anything they can to propagate, not to mention the BB imported with the plants which will kick start any cycle. Add in the nerite snail eating everything it can find in the tank, there's going to be little left to support anything but minuscule bacteria colony.

A single betta can and will cycle a tank. Cycling can take 6 to 8 weeks depending on conditions, but if someone is consistently getting ammonia readings, even small ones, and no nitrates, then you should not tell them they are cycled.

Telling someone they are cycled implies that the bacteria is doing its job and one can stop frequently testing. If that happens at this point we might end up seeing a betta hit with ammonia poisoning, or even nitrite poisoning.

False. I was offering an "opinion" (FYI: IMO=In My Opinion) that in my experience the tank is cycled, you and mudraker on the other hand simply dictate your laws of aquatics without question that the tank isn't cycled. There's a big difference between how either side presented their points and like any OP asking for advice, they can and should pick and choose what advice to follow.

The fact that the OP has kept the Betta in great shape for the last month is a clear indication that the tank is cycled for the bio-load introduced IMO. Bettas are one of the best gauges of a well cycled tank, since even questionable water quality can send them reeling and this one isn't showing any of those signs from what the OP indicated.

http://www.everythingbettafish.com/

@ the op, don't increase your bioload just for the sake of it, it could create more problems than solutions. Your stock can and will cycle your tank just fine.

Absolutely agree with this "opinion" in general. Putting a shoal of anything in a small tank like this is going be overstocked and will cause a serous upheaval in the balance achieved to date IMO I'd say the OP would be better off upgrading to a 10g if they want to add any fish.

 

[jetajockey]

Prime does take Chloramine and convert it to ammo and they readily admit it. Unless testing right after adding Prime, you WILL get a false positive.

Seachem. Prime FAQ

I believe every dechlorinator does this. It breaks the bond between the chlorine and ammonia, leaving the ammonia behind. Prime in particular then bonds the ammonia for a limited amount of time.

Add in the nerite snail eating everything it can find in the tank, there's going to be little left to support anything but minuscule bacteria colony.

I think it was an apple snail, which have a pretty sizable bioload as well. But even a betta alone has plenty. Think about it. Let's say you feed 2-3 pellets or flakes to your betta every day. It's going somewhere, and that's into the substrate after it's been processed by the fish. That's plenty.

False. I was offering an "opinion" (FYI: IMO=In My Opinion) that in my experience the tank is cycled, you and mudraker on the other hand simply dictate your laws of aquatics without question that the tank isn't cycled. There's a big difference between how either side presented their points and like any OP asking for advice, they can and should pick and choose what advice to follow.

That's fair. I didn't really dictate them as laws, but it is general and common knowledge in aquaria. I gave a differing opinion (honestly, a commonly held one) and I have data to back it up if necessary.

The fact that the OP has kept the Betta in great shape for the last month is a clear indication that the tank is cycled for the bio-load introduced IMO. Bettas are one of the best gauges of a well cycled tank, since even questionable water quality can send them reeling and this one isn't showing any of those signs from what the OP indicated.

It's not a clear indication of anything really, I could turn it around and say that its a clear indication that the betta has a small bioload and doesn't foul up the water very quickly. And no, bettas are far from the best gauge for a well cycled tank, when you start watching week old ram fry keel over one by one, I don't think there is a much better gauge.

Low ammonia levels aren't going to kill a fish out right, or even have any obvious detrimental effects. I don't know what the OP's water change schedule is like, but with that stocking level I am willing to bet that if he doesn't overfeed, the ammonia level will stay fairly low and take several days, if not weeks, to get up to a level that the fish would show signs of ammonia poisoning.


Bettas and gouramis are actually hardy fish that can withstand some pretty crappy conditions.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just wanted to give a counter opinion to some statements that have been made that are very contrary to very commonly held ideas among aquarists.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

I believe every dechlorinator does this. It breaks the bond between the chlorine and ammonia, leaving the ammonia behind. Prime in particular then bonds the ammonia for a limited amount of time.

The OP uses Prime and so do I, so I'm not sure what "every dechlorinator" has to do with this thread other than taking it OT? The link below explains what Prime actually does, better than you or I could.

Seachem. Prime FAQ

I think it was an apple snail, which have a pretty sizable bioload as well. But even a betta alone has plenty. Think about it. Let's say you feed 2-3 pellets or flakes to your betta every day. It's going somewhere, and that's into the substrate after it's been processed by the fish. That's plenty.

Yep, my bad, guess I was thinking of my Betta tanks nerite lol. There's the ammo culprit IMO. I don't know about yours, but my betta (and ones I've had/seen) don't even have a bio-load that can be registered.

That's fair. I didn't really dictate them as laws, but it is general and common knowledge in aquaria. I gave a differing opinion (honestly, a commonly held one) and I have data to back it up if necessary.

Data is always a must and that's what I use to say about carbon, because it was "a commonly held" belief. I corrected that myth.

Fluval 405 media? - Page 2 - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community

It's not a clear indication of anything really, I could turn it around and say that its a clear indication that the betta has a small bioload and doesn't foul up the water very quickly. And no, bettas are far from the best gauge for a well cycled tank, when you start watching week old ram fry keel over one by one, I don't think there is a much better gauge.

Low ammonia levels aren't going to kill a fish out right, or even have any obvious detrimental effects. I don't know what the OP's water change schedule is like, but with that stocking level I am willing to bet that if he doesn't overfeed, the ammonia level will stay fairly low and take several days, if not weeks, to get up to a level that the fish would show signs of ammonia poisoning.


Bettas and gouramis are actually hardy fish that can withstand some pretty crappy conditions.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just wanted to give a counter opinion to some statements that have been made that are very contrary to very commonly held ideas among aquarists.

I'm not sure what "week old ram fry" has to do with this tread other than taking it OT (again), but the link to Bettas seems to have more knowledgeable info on Bettas than either one of us does (mudraker included) and is an informational avenue for the OP, aside from someones misinformed "commonly held ideas", since Bettas are sensitive to adverse water conditions according to a few sites I could post links to.

As for ammo poisoning, you couldn't be further from the truth saying it takes weeks, since my goldies show signs of ammo poisoning in a matter of hours if I slip from my schedule, like I did today .

Here's the betta link again incase you missed it the first (2) times.

http://www.everythingbettafish.com/

 

[jetajockey]

The OP uses Prime and so do I, so I'm not sure what "every dechlorinator" has to do with this thread other than taking it OT? The link below explains what Prime actually does, better than you or I could.

Seachem. Prime FAQ

I'm not sure what your point is. I was just explaining that dechlorinators in general all do the same thing when it comes to breaking the chloramine bond.
I'm not sure how defering to seachem's FAQ page has anything to do with that, does it support or refute it?

Data is always a must and that's what I use to say about carbon, because it was "a commonly held" belief. I corrected that myth.

Fluval 405 media? - Page 2 - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community

congrats? I'm not sure what that has to do with this, apples and oranges. I don't know enough about carbon to really comment on its effectiveness or usage. I'm not sure how you plan to correct whatever you find mythical in this particular topic, but I'd like to see any data that you do have to the contrary.

I'm not sure what "week old ram fry" has to do with this tread other than taking it OT (again), but the link to Bettas seems to have more knowledgeable info on Bettas than either one of us does (mudraker included) and is an informational avenue for the OP, aside from someones misinformed "commonly held ideas", since Bettas are sensitive to adverse water conditions according to a few sites I could post links to.

I am not sure why you are even trying to argue this point, everyone knows that bettas (and other labyrinth fish) are some of the toughest out there.

As for ammo poisoning, you couldn't be further from the truth saying it takes weeks, since my goldies show signs of ammo poisoning in a matter of hours if I slip from my schedule, like I did today .

I said low ammonia levels, also keep in mind that ammonia toxicity is totally relevant to pH.

And are you keeping your goldfish in an uncycled tank?

Here's the betta link again incase you missed it the first (2) times.

http://www.everythingbettafish.com/

Thanks? What is this supposed to tell me? Something a little more concise would be good if you are trying to use this as a source.

 

[Revenantwing]

thats weird... i just tested my water and everything is at 0. Havent had that happen to me before

 

[pantherspawn]

wow.. full blown argument going on in here.. I'll get the popcorn..

 

[pantherspawn]

thats weird... i just tested my water and everything is at 0. Havent had that happen to me before

nitrates at a zero as well?

 

[Revenantwing]

yep

 

[Aquachic4545]

I tried Prime. It didn't really work with my water and I couldn't get good readings. I suspect our Chloramines here are really, really strong. For some reason, the Hikari Ultimate seems to do a better job. Weird.

 

[Justin83]

i use prime works really well for me although my water is not heavily chlorinated although it still does reek of it

i am also having the same problem in my tank i have .25 ammonia and 0 nitrites and o nitrates
but my tank has only been up for a month ( and a sword tail and a pineapple platy is not enough of a bio-load in a 10 gal to cycle properly ) i do over feed just a little bit and monitor ammonia daily just to be safe

@ jetajocky and Mr. limpet.... With all do respect and in the highest regards .. you both know way more that I .. i have studied alot on this site since i first got my 10 GAL .... i think we need to start thinking about the "OP"<-- (don't get this one maybe some one can enlighten me).. and less about who knows more about what...The bickering is childish ... even though its about the most civilized argument ive ever read.. it is still none the less an argument.. lets move on...

im sorry if i am out of line

 

[Revenantwing]

We can both use the help then

 

[Sarcothelia]

You get ammonia and then the nitrites come and take oxygen away from already not so happy fish

 

[jetajockey]

@ jetajocky and Mr. limpet.... With all do respect and in the highest regards .. you both know way more that I .. i have studied alot on this site since i first got my 10 GAL .... i think we need to start thinking about the "OP"<-- (don't get this one maybe some one can enlighten me).. and less about who knows more about what...The bickering is childish ... even though its about the most civilized argument ive ever read.. it is still none the less an argument.. lets move on...

im sorry if i am out of line

Thanks Justin. I wasn't really arguing about knowledge as much as just trying to clear up what I consider misinformation. Really not trying to make a peeing contest out of it.


Back to the topic at hand.

Cycling for 4 weeks is really not that long, it can take 6-8 weeks and even sometimes longer. Fish-in cycling drags out because of the frequency of water changes along with the lower amount of available food (ammonia level) than you'd have if you were fishless cycling.

My advice is just hang in there. Even if you have chloramines in your tap water, the advice is still the same. Do frequent water changes to keep the ammonia level low. Do your testing prior to your water changes, that way you can see if the biofilter is doing it's job. A proper working biofilter will eat the ammonia left by broken down chloramines as well. This is why I prefer to test at least 24 hours after a water change, just to make sure the biofilter has had plenty of time to do its job, if the ammonia is still there though, it tells me that the bacteria population is not large enough to handle the toxins yet, and the tank is not cycled...yet.

For your case in particular, not seeing nitrates is also another sign that the tank isn't cycled yet.

 

[Revenantwing]

My parameters are again are at 0... awesome...