I know. It was heartbreaking. So, was there something just wrong with him only? Or is it parasites? I have to decide whether to dose with the parasite guard a second time or not in the morning. They don't like it, and the rubbing on the glass started AFTER I put the med in. If its not parasites, I'm prolly hurting him with meds he don't need. But, he really stAys at the top, so SOMETHING is wrong ?
Ph? Cycled? Sorry so many questions...
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Okay, he seemed a lot better today. So, I did 25% water change, (prime, a splash of stress coat, and 50/50 tap / drinking water), added new carbon filter (cause stupid bf threw old one away). And he's worse. His tail is clamped now. He stays either at the very top, or very bottom. He ate, but returned to bottom. I noticed he sparkles in the dark. I hate to throw more meds at him. Could there be ammonia in my water (because used new filter cartridge) that my test isn't picking up? All of them look unhappy. And only the big 2 have glittery sparkles on them (like i shine a flashlight at them in the dark and they look like someone threw sparkle on them. Is it color? Or velvet?
Question for pearly.....did you have angelfish? I ask because I had ZERO trouble with these fish for 2 weeks. My daily testing showed zero ammonia and nitrites. Nitrates-5. And ph started at 8.2. Then I noticed my little guy (who has since past away) had a tears in his fin. So, i started doing water changes with half tap water, and half bottled purified drinking water that said RO on the label to lower the ph. That's when all my trouble began. It's been suggested to me that I caused my own demise! Stressing my fish with water changes that werent necessary and possibly the "RO" water isn't good for them. My bf is trying to correct what he thinks I did wrong....did a 50 % water change with just tap and prime, and is now treating them with maracide and maracyn2, because we can't figure out what's wrong. The medicine seems to be making them ALL worse (they all are shimmying and pale). And sparkle stays at the top most of the time now. I do have a 2.5 gallon hospital tank, but I was afraid to put an angelfish in such a small tank. Now....I feel like I'm hurting them all. Should I stop the meds, put the carbon back in, treat sparkle in little tank, and hope for the best? Or do numerous water changes, and leave everyone alone? My huge dilemma is: everyone keeps saying WATER CHANGES! But my bf's mom has a beautiful tank, and she NEVER changes the water. She put her fish in with stress coat, and they thrive. So, seems like the more I change the water, the worse things get. And got bf in the background telling me to just leave it alone! As for my 10 gallon, I am doing daily water changes regardless of what anyone says because of the nitrites. The fish in that tank don't get stressed by them, so I'm cool. I knew angelfish were delicate, but it's always been my dream. Any advice is appreciated!
Ohhh, dear Kelly...., I so wish I could help you. Know exactly the anxiety you are having right now having gone through this myself. No one tells you how much work and knowledge is involved in this hobby when you first get into it... Then being the type of person you are (maybe little on perfectionist side?) and loving your fish, you drive yourself crazy being tossed between totally opposite opinions.... And there you are! With your poor fish! Not knowing what to do! Kelly I myself fell victim to same circumstance few months ago and been sifting through masses of information myself trying to make some sense out of it. Unfortunately there seem to be as many opinions are there are people out there and I've decided to take some of those with a grain of salt. I have no experience with angels at all. The only think I can say I KNOW through research and own work is Bettas, Platties, Mollies, ghost shrimp, snails (very limited) and live plants. I wish I could help you more but I can always be your "sounding board" in the things I do know. Water changes is what I've been doing (twice daily on my tanks that went into mini cycle), right or wrong.... Not sure. What I do know is immediately after wc ammonia and nitrites do go down so the fish get the relief. One of my tanks is back to normal, the other one almost there, and the 3rd slowly getting there (nitrates start showing up). So I do believe in water changes, driftwood, live plants, good food for the fish, but let me say something else, Kelly it is very obvious that you care about your fish very much. You know them better than anyone, and even-though you may still feel lost at times at this apprenticeship phase of this hobby... sometimes you need to trust your instinct. With all the work and time that you've been putting into it, plus love for your fish.... you simply can't go wrong! Sometimes things happen that we have no control over, but you should always know that you have done your absolutely BEST. I probably didn't answer your question, but I'll go back to it and read it over and whatever left will address in another post. Hang in there, Kelly?
Ok, Kelly, sorry, back to your original question. Be careful with switching water supplies (tap from RO) and do it very gradually especially if there are big differences in hardness and ph between the two. Fish will adopt over time but sudden jumps can be very stressful to them and make them sick. I also have mixed feelings about using meds. Seems that my round of Mardel Quick Cure is what threw my 3 tanks into a minicycle which has been a royal pain..., but if signs of disease are obvious and you have the right med for it, I say "treat it" then deal with consequences later. Kelly, I'm keeping my fingers (and toes!) crossed for you. Courage, Girl!
Well, that's my problem.....I don't for sure know what's wrong. That's why meds are so scary! Can raised temps and salt really cure bacterial infections and internal parasites? If so, I'm thinking I should NOT continue meds. But if the water was not showing ammonia, nitrites, etc, and the ph was slowly coming down (by mixing the water for water changes, then why did he get sick? You're right about mixed opinions! I really wish I could have 1 person say " that's gill flukes", or, "that's septicemia" and tell me what to do! Here is the situation today. I'm using the night light, cause I'm trying to stress them as little as possible. Can you see how he stays at the top, shimmys and is red where his side fin meets his body? And now silvers eyes are red! To be honest, I did think I was on the right track. I used parasite guard because it covered EVERYTHING. And none of their tails looked ragged after I started mixing water. But, I second guessed myself, and my bf screwed everything g up trying to fix it! So, NOW what?
http://youtu.be/oTnMIkTMB5k
http://youtu.be/oTnMIkTMB5k
I'm feeling pretty defeated.
http://youtu.be/g9_9I8IS1Qw
http://youtu.be/50cSBnqJq2o
I know the video is blur, but he has an open sore in middle of the silver shiny stuff on his gill. And, I swear he looks gold under the flashlight. This is 3 days into maracyn 1&2 treatment. I have this gut feeling the parasite guard is what I should be using, but I'm afraid to throw another medicine at them. Also, I'm starting back with the 50/50 water. No way are they comfortable in 8.4 ph, and it hasn't gone down since stupid bf threw in all tap water few days ago. I won't give up until the fish do, but this is frustrating as heck and I'm so very sad I can't help them. If I could just diagnose...., anyways, can high ph cause wounds? There is NO fighting between these fish. The other 2 hang around sparkle almost as if protecting him
http://youtu.be/g9_9I8IS1Qw
http://youtu.be/50cSBnqJq2o
I know the video is blur, but he has an open sore in middle of the silver shiny stuff on his gill. And, I swear he looks gold under the flashlight. This is 3 days into maracyn 1&2 treatment. I have this gut feeling the parasite guard is what I should be using, but I'm afraid to throw another medicine at them. Also, I'm starting back with the 50/50 water. No way are they comfortable in 8.4 ph, and it hasn't gone down since stupid bf threw in all tap water few days ago. I won't give up until the fish do, but this is frustrating as heck and I'm so very sad I can't help them. If I could just diagnose...., anyways, can high ph cause wounds? There is NO fighting between these fish. The other 2 hang around sparkle almost as if protecting him
Now, now, Kelly, there is no defeat in anything that you've done. I'm having difficulty watching your videos but would not be ofbig help with your angels anyway as I have no experience with them at all. One think I will say tho is that whenever you have a little Eco system of its own going they often take on a personality of their own. I discovered at last nights testing that one of my tiny betta tanks ph was very low 6.6, and it's been slowly coming down from 8.2 over couple of months. I thought I was imagining the color difference on this tanks tube but finally yesterday double checked and sure enough! And I'm doing everything this same on my tanks! Why would it do that? Who knows?! But the fish and snails are fine for now. I imagine will have to bring this ph up for the poor snail's sake, but again it'll be slow gradual process using natural means which I have yet to research today. As for you using medications, Kelly I've heard from most respected experts that "less is more" but I feel that if you know what you are dealing with and have the med for it, use it. After dealing with my own aftermath of treating the whole tank I would opt for isolating sick fish for the duration of the treatment. Those meds can mess up your cycle or at least they did mine. There is still so much to learn! How about you bringing your pictures/videos to your lfs and showing there? I find that having a "local authority" is most valuable. This is what I did, I made numerous trips to my lfs on different days of the weeks as different people were on duty and I've spotted couple whom I liked watching work and the answers they gave me (showed me they knew stuff and did care). I so wish I could be of more help to you. Hang in there.
Update
Thx for the advice pearly. But, I DID take the pics and videos to my LSF, and they said call a vet, which I tried, vets won't diagnose over the phone and won't see fish. All of them are still alive....somehow! I started slowly lowering the ph with RO/ tap water (with prime). Parker now looks like she has a white saddle on her back. That and other symptoms have me pretty convinced its columnarus. I finally found a great site that said that the maracyns do NOT cure this, and as you said, messed up the bio system! Triple sulpha is supposed to work for mild cases. But furan2 (as mebbid suggested)and kanamycin are the only that will treat bad cases (and fish still might not make it! I ordered the 2 meds online (be here in 2 days) and am using triple sulpha until then with parasite guard that covers everything a little bit. Sparkle is swimming around a lot more (no hanging at the top) in spite of her appearance looking worse. All their poop is red/ brown again, so I'm praying the others (and hopefully sparkle too) pull through! I also bought a wonder shell and moss ball to help with hardness and putting electrolytes back into the water. Ammon/nitrites still 0. 0..keep letting me know any thoughts or suggestions?'
Thx for the advice pearly. But, I DID take the pics and videos to my LSF, and they said call a vet, which I tried, vets won't diagnose over the phone and won't see fish. All of them are still alive....somehow! I started slowly lowering the ph with RO/ tap water (with prime). Parker now looks like she has a white saddle on her back. That and other symptoms have me pretty convinced its columnarus. I finally found a great site that said that the maracyns do NOT cure this, and as you said, messed up the bio system! Triple sulpha is supposed to work for mild cases. But furan2 (as mebbid suggested)and kanamycin are the only that will treat bad cases (and fish still might not make it! I ordered the 2 meds online (be here in 2 days) and am using triple sulpha until then with parasite guard that covers everything a little bit. Sparkle is swimming around a lot more (no hanging at the top) in spite of her appearance looking worse. All their poop is red/ brown again, so I'm praying the others (and hopefully sparkle too) pull through! I also bought a wonder shell and moss ball to help with hardness and putting electrolytes back into the water. Ammon/nitrites still 0. 0..keep letting me know any thoughts or suggestions?'
It seems like you've armed yourself very well in knowledge about diseases and treatment in fish, I envy that. The time I have for research barely allows to "surface cover" my immediate needs. I'm very ignorant about the diseases/treatments. The only reason I discovered velvet (if that's what it was after all, I've never had poor little Aqua at the vet's office for diagnosis) was because his behavior changed and he was hanging near the water surface for couple of days. I've always been very diligent about water changes (hear that most diseases are brought on by poor water quality), have live plants, optimal for them water temperature, feed them frozen food and peas (mine refuse dry flakes or pellets anymore, everything has to be "real deal"
the only thing out of ordinary for Aqua couple of days before he started changing I introduced a snail to his tank. My lfs people said they typically don't cross transmit diseases, and that most likely this was coincidental but I'm not sure what to believe. The fact with this hobby is that in a crunch you are pretty much on your own unless your best friend that lives in your area happens to be a marine biologist or something this forum is a great source of info but in a moment of panic when looking for answers and no one chimes in with advice (the experts get overwhelmed with hundreds of posts) I know how lonely and scary that feels. I have come to conclusion that I'll focus on water quality and creating optimal environment for my pet fish (as close to the one they'd have in nature as possible) will keep chemicals to the minimum except for Prime, and will try not to overanalyze as not to drive myself crazy. Instead I'll continue with water testing and changes 1-2 per day till my last tank is done with its mini cycle and in the meantime try to relax a bit and ENJOY my fish. Sorry for long posts, but I'm seeing a lot of what I've gone through in yours and hope by sharing my experience I can alleviate your anxiety at least a little As for white spots... I thought they were typically a sign of ich? Not that I've ever seen one, sorry Kelly, wish could be of more help
the only thing out of ordinary for Aqua couple of days before he started changing I introduced a snail to his tank. My lfs people said they typically don't cross transmit diseases, and that most likely this was coincidental but I'm not sure what to believe. The fact with this hobby is that in a crunch you are pretty much on your own unless your best friend that lives in your area happens to be a marine biologist or something this forum is a great source of info but in a moment of panic when looking for answers and no one chimes in with advice (the experts get overwhelmed with hundreds of posts) I know how lonely and scary that feels. I have come to conclusion that I'll focus on water quality and creating optimal environment for my pet fish (as close to the one they'd have in nature as possible) will keep chemicals to the minimum except for Prime, and will try not to overanalyze as not to drive myself crazy. Instead I'll continue with water testing and changes 1-2 per day till my last tank is done with its mini cycle and in the meantime try to relax a bit and ENJOY my fish. Sorry for long posts, but I'm seeing a lot of what I've gone through in yours and hope by sharing my experience I can alleviate your anxiety at least a little As for white spots... I thought they were typically a sign of ich? Not that I've ever seen one, sorry Kelly, wish could be of more helpSimilar threads
